John Lay Sr decd & John Lay Jr in Cumberland & Perry Co PA in Probate Records online around 1820:
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Perry Co PA, Orphans Ct Dockets Index 1820-1950, p243, Image online 348:
John Loy # 18 ½,
John Lay #26 ½,
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Perry Co PA, Orphans Ct Dockets 1820-1845 Vol A-C:
Image Online 18:
John Lay decd, Guardian appoint for Samuel Lay p. 46
John Lay decd, Guardian appoint for Jacob Lay p. 46
(Many citations for Michael Loy decd)
Image online 58, p. 46, 3 Feb 1824:
"The Petition of Christian Henry cousin and next friend of Samuel Lay was read to the court stating that John Lay late of Toboyne Township died leaving his son the said Samuel Lay a minor under the age of fourteen years without any guardian to take care of his person and estate and praying the court to appoint some suitable person to take care of the person and estate of the said minor.
Whereupon the court appoints Christian Henry to be the Guardian of the said minor."
Image online 58, p. 46, 3 Feb 1824:
"The Petition of Jacob Lay minor son of Jacob? Lay late of Toboyne Township died leaving his son above the age of fourteen years and praying the court to appoint some suitable person to take care of the person and estate
Whereupon the court appoints Christian Henry to be the Guardian over the person and estate of the said minor."
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Administration Records 1750-1845:
None
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Appearance Dockets 1798-1807:
Alphabetical by date, Not indexed
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Orphans Court Dockets 1815-1825;
**1820 Court Records Online Image 403 (p. 120) to 445 (p. 265) would review online 145 pages.
Only indexed 1880-1929
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Will Index 1750-1937 L, p 91, Image online 79:
John Lay Sr
Letters 16 Aug 1820 A, administration proven
Executor John Harper
Administration Bond $1000
Surety Robert McCoy & Danl McDanel
Registers Docket Book C p 213
Inventory 19 Sep 1820 #104
Vendue 28 Nov 1923 #34
Account 8 Aug 1823 A #83
__________________________________________________________________________
Had a 1st wife possibly Eva Margaret HENRY bef 1755 PA- 1820 PA and had children from Larry Mentzer:
The 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp., raises the possibility that John Lay was married and had a number of children before his marriage to Hannah Henry in 1791. Found in this record are at least four children born before 1791. The Ziegler Church records, Mifflin Twp, Cumberland Co. PA state John, baptized 1801, son of EVA MARGARET and John Leh, sponsors, John Henry and Eva Margaret. In 1801, John Leh was married to Hannah. If Eva Margaret was John Lay's first wife, she died before 1791 and John (baptized 1801) was born before 1791, which is the marriage date for John and Hannah. Since the baptismal sponsors can often represent a significant relationship to the parents, I agree with K.E. Lay that it is possible John's first wife, Eva Margaret is a Henry and she may be the sister of John Henry who is listed as a sponsor. This is the only reference I have found that may indicate John Lay was married to Eva Margaret. According to the research of James Leh, this Eva Margaret is Margaret Fought. His reference is taken from two other web sites, which have no official reference. It is possible that this reference is taken from the St. Peter's Lutheran Church Records, Cumberland Co. PA which states Margareth Lee was a communicate on 9/13/1812. We know John was married to Hannah in 1812.
According to K.E. Lay's research, there was a John Lay in Capt. Dotterer's Co. from Frederick Twp. Phila Co. 22 April, 1777. The Revolutionary War Pension records often list family members and descendants, however I have not found a John Lay from Montgomery Co. listed in the index for these records. The older John Lay was listed in the Frederick Twp. Phila. Co. Tax lists in 1781, 1782 and 1783. He is also listed in the Septennial Census for 1786 at the same location. When the younger John Lay married Hannah, her father (Nicholas) was listed as living in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co., which was created from Phila. Co. Were Eva Margaret and John married near this location about 1775? I can't find any records regarding John and Eva Margaret or their children at his location. If John and Eva Margaret did live in this location and bearing children, they apparently didn't attend church, which in turn has created a problem for their descendants. I'm also doing research on the Henry family in the hope that I can find this Eva Margaret Henry. This search is also leading me to believe that John, Hannah and Eva Margaret Henry are siblings, children of Nicholas and Sophia (Adams) Henrich.
1767 Tax Lists: Brecknock Tp, Berks Co, PA, John LEY, 50 acres.
1768 Tax Lists: Brecknock Tp, Berks Co, PA, Johannes LEY, 50 acres.
1769 Tax List: U Salford Tp, Philadelphia Co, PA, John LAY no acres, bldgs, animals listed for taxes = 2 Tax (PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XIV, p 55).
May 1772 Oyer & Terminer Court papers, Berks Co PA: John Lee to be on a Grand Jury, but wasn't chosen, for a negroe wench named Lucy being beaten by her mistress with a knotted hickory stick and died.
Her mistress "not having the fear of God before her eyes but being moved and seduced by the in stigation of the Devil . . held the said Negro woman ( and with the stick beat her) upon the back, breastand arm . . . feloniously voluntarily and of her malice aforethought did knock and strike her . .
(causing) four mortal bruises of the length of three inches and breath of one inch each . . . (she) lauguished from said first day of April until the fourth day of April . . . did die . . . (and the inquest says her mistress) did kill and murder against the peace of our said Lordthe King his Crown and Dignity. But he jury found the mistress NOT Guilty othe the felony and murder.
13-14 May 1776 Oyer & Terminer Court pa17pers, Berks Co PA: John Lee to be on a Grand Jury for a white yeoman killing a former slave and accused of manslaughter for hiting the Negroe on the right side of his head with a stick on 11 Nov, the moral bruise being 2 incles long and 1/2 inch wide. The slave languished until the 13th of November when he died.
22 Apr 1777: John LAY in Capt Dotterer's Co of Phila Co, PA, Associators from Frederick Tp. (PA German Soc Proceedings, v. 17, p. 281).
1779 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, now Montgomery County, John LAY 300 pounds
Non- Associates (opposed military rule)
c1780 John Lay married Eva Margaret Henry? b bef 1755 PA d 1820 PA
1780 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, John LAY 3 2500 13 15
1781 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, John LAY.
1781 Tax List: Southwark East, Phila City, PA, John LEA
(PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XV, p 778).
1782 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, 1 horse = 6 + 1 cow = 4 + occupation = 90 = 100 pounds, John LAY
(PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XVI, p 165).
1783 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, 1 horse = 8 + 2 cows = 6 + occupation = 86 = 100 pounds, John LAY (PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XVI, p 549).
Montgomery Co formed in 1784 from Philadelphia Co.
1785 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Montgomery Co, PA, 100 - 7 6, John Lay
1787 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Montgomery Co PA,
John LAY - 3 5 pounds
The following are listed in the 1790 Montgomery Co PA census (in the remainder of the county other than Abington, Cheltenham, Springfield, and Moreland Tps, all near Philadelphia):
John LEY b bef 1774 with 2 white females
Henry LEY b bef 1774
John MAY b bef 1774 with 5 white females & 1 other free person
(No LEY or MAY listed in Montgomery Co in the 1800 census which could indicate that John LAY moved to Cumberland [later Perry] Co by 1800)
31 Jan 1791 marriage of Johnnes LEE, son of John LEE, to Hannah HEINRICH, dau of Nicholas HENRY of Frederick Tp, Montgomery Co, PA (Falkner Swamp Ref Ch records, Montgomery Co, PA).
Falkner Swamp Reformed Records, New Hanover Twp. Montgomery Co., PA:
John Lee, son of John Lee, m.1/21/1791 Hannah Henry, dau. of Nicholas Henry of Frederick Twp. Rev. Frederick Dellicker.
Jan 1792: Apparently living in Bucks Co, PA, since daughter Catharine LAY was born there 29 Jan 1792.
1793 Septennial Census, Dickinson Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
Thomas Lee farmer; John Lee farmer
1800 Septennial Census, Toboyne Tp, Perry Co PA:
John Lay, farmer
1800 Census, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John LAY, 6 males, 4 females, nearby landowners were Jno Barnett, Abm Dibow, Peter Henry, John Henry, Adam Nighday, the John Lay, Geo Libfritz, Abm Henry, George Connor. Joseph Wolfe, Isaac Leister
(Perry Co formed from Cumb Co in 1820).
Are these census records for John Lay who married Johanna Henry in 1791
The following are assumptions of family members:
1800 Census, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co, PA, John Lay:
Could this NOT be our family or are these children to a FIRST WIFE?
Males 6
1 - 10 1790-1800 Henry Lay 1801-1866
1 - 10 1790-1800 John Lay 1790/1800
1 - 16 1784-1800 ? (Child to 1st wife)
16 - 26 1774-1784 ? (Child to 1st wife)
16 - 26 1774-1784 ? (Child to 1st wife)
45 up bef 1755 (John Lay)
Females 4
1 - 10 1790-1800 Catharine Lay 1792-1876
1 - 10 1790-1800 ? (Child to 1st wife)
10 - 16 1784-1790 ? (Child to 1st wife)
45 up bef 1755 (date?Hannah Henry 1771-1850s)
Toboyne Tp, Cumberland Co, PA, 1810 Census, John Lay:
Males 4
0 - 9 1801-1810 Jacob Lay 1805-1884
10 - 15 1795-1800 Henry Lay 1801-1866
10 - 15 1795-1800 John Lay 1790/1800
45 up bef 1765 (John Lay)
Females 4
10 - 15 1795-1800 ? (Child to 1st wife)
16 - 25 1785-1794 Catharine Lay 1792-1876
16 - 25 1785-1794 ? (Child to 1st wife)
45 up bef 1765 (date?Hannah Henry 1771-1850s)
Toboyne Tp, Perry Co, PA, 1820 Census, Hannah Lay:
Males 3
0 - 10 1810-1820 Samuel Lay 1812-1871
10 - 16 1804-1810 Jacob Lay 1805-1884
16 - 26 1794-1804 Henry Lay 1801-1866
Females 2
0 - 10 1810-1820 ? (Child to Hannah)
26 - 45 1775-1794 (Hannah Henry 1771-1850s)
1805 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John LAY, 83 acres, no horses or cows
listed at end of alphabetical list with others such as:
John Henry, 100 acres of mountain land + 2 cows
then John Lay, 83 acres
Nedy Adam, 100 acres + 1 horse + 2 cows
Geo Caner, 200 acres
Thos Caner, 200 acres
Zeigler's Lutheran Ch, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John Leh, bpt 15 Jan 1801, son of John and Eva Margaret Leh
Sponsors: John and Eva Margaret Henry
1807 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
under "the people near the mountain" along with John Clouse (no land), Thos Canor, John Henry, Abraham Henry (no land), and then with "not in our township" beside John LAY's and John Negy's names
1810 Census, Toboyne Tp, Cumberland (later Perry) Co PA:
HOH John LAY
males
1 b bef 1765 (father John Lay bef 1755-c1820)
2 b 1795-1800 (sons John Lay 1790s-1830s & Henry Lay 1801-1866)
1 b 1801-1810 (son Jacob Lay 1805-1884)
females
1 b bef 1765 (mother Johannah Henry 1771-1850s)
2 b 1785-1794 (??)
1 b 1795-1800 (??)
nearby landowners were John Hogshaw, Susannah Evinger, George Coiner, John Shatto, John Dewatz, then John Lay, George Henry, Adam Neidigh, John Henry, John Henry Jr, John Clous, Thomas Conner, Jacob Henry, William Campbell
1814 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland (later Perry) Co PA:
John LEA, 167 acres, 2 horses, 3 cows, listed at end of Tp list under "property in Diehl's Valley" (probably Henry's, later Sheaffer's, Valley, Perry Co, as a Diehl took out an early land warrantee there) , along with nearby landowners John Clouse and John, George, Jacob, Peter, & Christy Henry, and Adam Neddah Sr & Jr
1817 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John Lay Sr, 200 acres @ 4 + 3 horses @ 45 + 4 cows @ 4 = $951 tax value
197552796
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co Will Index 1750-1937 K-S, Image 79 p. 92:
John Lay Sr Includes:
8 Aug 1823 A-83 Account Registers Docket C213 (Image 382)
16 Aug 1820 Administration proven
19 Sep 1820 Inventory #104
28 Nov 1823 Vendue List #34
Cumberland Co Courthouse:
To Wm Line Esq Register
Sir:
This is to certify that I do hereby along(?) relinquist and forever renounce all claim to the administration of my late husbands Estate and wish to have you appoint John Harper for that purpose as I have full confidence in him. (word?) my hand this 16th day of August 1820.
Hannah (her + mark) Lay - relict of John Lay Sr decd
Test
Christian Henry (signed)
16 Aug 1820 Letter of Administration, Cumberland Co PA Courthouse, Registers Docket Entry #C213 (PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co Administration Records 1759-1845 vol A-D, Image 382 P. 213):
John Lay dec'd
8 Nov 1821 Newspaper:
Notice
All persons having any demands against the estate of John Lay, sen'r, late of Toboyne township, Perry county. dec'd, or against the estate of William Henry, late of the same place, deceased, are requested to present them to the subscriber, on or before to 20th day of December next, properly authenticated, for settlement; and all persons who know themselves to stand indebted to either of the said estates, are requested to make immediate payment of their resoective debts, to the subscriber, as no longer indulgence can or will be given.
John Harper, Admr of said deceased
Mifflin township, Cumberland county
November 9, 1821
1824 Orphans Court Record, Perry Co PA (#26 1/2 & 46):
Guardian for Jacob Lay:
To the Honorable the Judges of the Orphan's Court of Perry Co PA.
The petition of Jacob Lay minor orphan son of John Lay late of Toboine Tp PA
Humbly herewith
That your partitioner's late father -- died leaving your petitioner a minor above the age of fourteen years (c1820) for whom no guardian hath been appointed to take care of his person and estate.
Your petitioner therefore prays? this honorable court to permit him to make charge of a guardian to take care of his person and estate of the said Samuel and he -- duly bound will --.
Jacob Lay (signed with an X)
1831 Perry Co PA, Two Plats A-033-011:
John Lay heirs (Plat 78A)
Along Laurel Run, SW Madison Tp
Survey 18 Nov 1831
Accepted 12 Jan 1832
___________________________________________
From Larry Mentger & James K Leh:
The Penn. Septennial Censuses for 1786 lists John Lay, Blacksmith, in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co. PA. The same records in the same location for 1793 lists John Lee and John Lee, Jr. The John Lee is apparently the John m. Catharine and the John Lee. Jr is their son (b. abt. 1755) who m. Hannah Henry. This record indicates John and Hannah Lay where living in Montgomery Co. and their daughter Catharine (b.1792) was born at this location. I feel the John Ley found in the 1790 Census for Montgomery Co, is the older John. A John Lay is found on the tax lists for 1781, 1782 & 1783 for the same location. I feel this person is also the older John. The Penn. Septennial Census does not list any John Lays (Ley) for 1800 in Montgomery Co. The Septennial Census for 1793 indicates the older John was still living in 1793 and the Falkner Swamp Church (above) lists him as dec'd for the marriage of his son Henry in 1796. Apparently this John Lee (Lay) died between 1793-1796.
The reference to PG Proc-Penn. German Proceedings. The reference to John Lay in Dotterer's is found in The Penn.-German in the Rev. War 1775-1783 by Henry M. Muhlenburg Richards: From the Penn.-German Society Proceedings and Addresses, V. 12: Gen. Publ. Co., Baltimore, MD 1978, 1991. It gives no age for our John. Another source below will take you to John Lay and to John Henry. You will also find Caspar Lay. The reference to John "allow'd on acct. of inability of body & est" ? may mean that he did not serve for physical reasons. Maybe he was too old. This enforces my speculation that this is the older John and the younger John was born later than 1755. Meaning also that he would not be the father of children born abt. 1774 as stated by the 1800 census.
Falkner Swamp Reformed Records, New Hanover Twp. Montgomery Co., PA:
John Lee, son of John Lee, m.1/21/1791 Hannah Henry, dau. of Nicholas Henry of Frederick Twp. Rev. Frederick Dellicker.
Unfortunately there is no birth reference for the John Lee who m. Hannah Henry. However, we do know that John was listed as the son of John Lee when he married Hannah in 1791. Furthermore, John and Catharine Leeh were sponsors for the baptismal for Catharine b.1792, daughter of John and Hanna. Catharine (b. 1792) was apparently named after her grandmother. I feel that John (b. abt.1755), Felix (b.1756), Elizabeth (b. 1760), Maria (b. 1762), Ann (b. 1765), Henry (b. 1767) and Peter (b. 1771) are the children of John and Catharine Lee and the grand children of Felix Leh.
Based upon the excellent research of K.E. Lay, it is obvious John and Hannah Lay moved to Cumberland County, PA. They apparently made this move sometime between 1793 and 1800, possibly with other members of her (Henry) family. Found in the 1800 Census, Mifflin Twp., Cumberland Co. is the family of John Lay living not far from the family of John Henry. These two families are again found in the1810 Census for Toboyne Twp., Cumberland Co. PA. This is interesting because the Penn. Septennial Census for 1800 for Toboyne Twp. lists John Lay, farmer, and John Henry, mason. Apparently, they move across the mountain from Mifflin Twp. to Toboyne Twp. by the end of 1800 after the federal census for that year was taken or they only owned property in Toboyne Twp. They are found in the 1810 Census for Toboyne Twp living not far from John Henry. The Penn. Septennial Censuses for Toboyne Twp. Cumberland Co. for 1800 list John Lay, farmer and John Henry, mason. The date for this report is 12/1800 and the location is correct. Apparently, John Lay and John Henry moved to Toboyne Twp. after the federal census was taken for that year or they only owned property in Toboyne Twp.
I have another idea, which is based primarily upon the lack of sufficient information regarding John Lay's first marriage. If it were not for the 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp. Cumberland Co. and the Ziegler Church records, it would be easy for us to assume the younger John (bp.1801) found in Cumberland Co. is the son of John and Hannah and was b.1793-95 in Montgomery Co. or Cumberland Co.
The children listed with John and Hannah in the 1810 Census Toboyne Twp. Cumberland Co. are all within the age range to be their children. Catharine (b.1792) and John (bp.1801) are without doubt. The other male children we know are Jacob (b.1805) and Henry (b.1801). The records of the St. Peter's Lutheran Church lists Margareth Lee, communed 9/13/1812 and Hannah Leh, confirmed 10/5/1817. Also listed is Anna Leh, communed 11/1/1818, but this I feel is a misspelling for Hannah. Assuming there is only one Lay family in this area, these females may be the daughters of John and Hannah. The only part of this census report I question is the age of Hannah, which is reported as 45+ when she is only 39.
However, the family of John Lay listed in the 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp. Cumberland Co is not easily understood. Again the age for Hannah is not correct but is listed as 45+ when she is only 29. In reference to their ages, there are at least four children listed who were born before the marriage of John and Hannah. While the 1810 Census makes some logical sense based upon many known facts, this 1800 Census does not. If some of these children descend from John and Eva Margaret they apparently didn't stay in the area very long and possibly moved west without leaving any records. Early census records are not reliable, especially when they are not supported by sufficient facts.
After researching a number of records including LDS films, I have not been able to find any other records for Eva Margaret as a Henry or in relationship to a John Lay. Based upon the Penn. Septennial Census (above), John (b.abt.1755) was living in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co. in 1793. In this same county, we can find records of his marriage to Hannah and their first-born child. If John was married before 1791 and had a number of children, there should also be some records. I feel church records are significant resources, however we must not permit our selves to be given the wrong impression by this same significance. The reference to Eva Margaret in the Ziegler Church records I feel is in question. It is possible the original record or translation is wrong. Since another Eva Margaret was a sponsor for this baptism, it is very possible the person who recorded this event duplicated the names. Since John Henry was the other sponsor for the baptism and possibly the brother of Hannah, I feel the church record should state Hannah is the mother of John (bp.1801).
At the present time, I feel there is not enough evidence to prove that John (1755) was married and had children before 1791. The only indication of this possible union is found in the records of Cumberland Co. I feel John was not married until 1791 and he was born at a later date then 1755. I also think he did not move to Cumberland Co. until after the death of his father which apparently took place between 1793-1796.
At the Montgomery Co. Historical Society in Norristown, PA, in the Falkner Swamp Church Record, Reformed Vol. I & II, 1748-1853 thefollowing entries were found:
Joh Lee, son of John Lee married Hannah Henry, daughter of Nicholas
Henry of Frederick Twp., Montgomery Co. 31 January 1791.
Maria daughter of John Lee married Jacob Oberdorff, son of Georg
Oberdorff, 11 December 1791.
All indications seem to point to the fact that this John Lee (b. c1755)
The 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp., raises the possibility that John Lay was married and had a number of children before his marriage to Hannah Henry in 1791. Found in this record are at least four children born before 1791. The Ziegler Church records, Mifflin Twp, Cumberland Co. PA state John, baptized 1801, son of EVA MARGARET and John Leh, sponsors, John Henry and Eva Margaret. In 1801, John Leh was married to Hannah. If Eva Margaret was John Lay's first wife, she died before 1791 and John (baptized 1801) was born before 1791, which is the marriage date for John and Hannah. Since the baptismal sponsors can often represent a significant relationship to the parents, I agree with K.E. Lay that it is possible John's first wife, Eva Margaret is a Henry and she may be the sister of John Henry who is listed as a sponsor. This is the only reference I have found that may indicate John Lay was married to Eva Margaret. According to the research of James Leh, this Eva Margaret is Margaret Fought. His reference is taken from two other web sites, which have no official reference. It is possible that this reference is taken from the St. Peter's Lutheran Church Records, Cumberland Co. PA which states Margareth Lee was a communicate on 9/13/1812. We know John was married to Hannah in 1812.
According to K.E. Lay's research, there was a John Lay in Capt. Dotterer's Co. from Frederick Twp. Phila Co. 22 April, 1777. The Revolutionary War Pension records often list family members and descendants, however I have not found a John Lay from Montgomery Co. listed in the index for these records. The older John Lay was listed in the Frederick Twp. Phila. Co. Tax lists in 1781, 1782 and 1783. He is also listed in the Septennial Census for 1786 at the same location. When the younger John Lay married Hannah, her father (Nicholas) was listed as living in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co., which was created from Phila. Co. Were Eva Margaret and John married near this location about 1775? I can't find any records regarding John and Eva Margaret or their children at his location. If John and Eva Margaret did live in this location and bearing children, they apparently didn't attend church, which in turn has created a problem for their descendants. I'm also doing research on the Henry family in the hope that I can find this Eva Margaret Henry. This search is also leading me to believe that John, Hannah and Eva Margaret Henry are siblings, children of Nicholas and Sophia (Adams) Henrich.
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Perry Co PA, Orphans Ct Dockets Index 1820-1950, p243, Image online 348:
John Loy # 18 ½,
John Lay #26 ½,
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Perry Co PA, Orphans Ct Dockets 1820-1845 Vol A-C:
Image Online 18:
John Lay decd, Guardian appoint for Samuel Lay p. 46
John Lay decd, Guardian appoint for Jacob Lay p. 46
(Many citations for Michael Loy decd)
Image online 58, p. 46, 3 Feb 1824:
"The Petition of Christian Henry cousin and next friend of Samuel Lay was read to the court stating that John Lay late of Toboyne Township died leaving his son the said Samuel Lay a minor under the age of fourteen years without any guardian to take care of his person and estate and praying the court to appoint some suitable person to take care of the person and estate of the said minor.
Whereupon the court appoints Christian Henry to be the Guardian of the said minor."
Image online 58, p. 46, 3 Feb 1824:
"The Petition of Jacob Lay minor son of Jacob? Lay late of Toboyne Township died leaving his son above the age of fourteen years and praying the court to appoint some suitable person to take care of the person and estate
Whereupon the court appoints Christian Henry to be the Guardian over the person and estate of the said minor."
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Administration Records 1750-1845:
None
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Appearance Dockets 1798-1807:
Alphabetical by date, Not indexed
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Orphans Court Dockets 1815-1825;
**1820 Court Records Online Image 403 (p. 120) to 445 (p. 265) would review online 145 pages.
Only indexed 1880-1929
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Will Index 1750-1937 L, p 91, Image online 79:
John Lay Sr
Letters 16 Aug 1820 A, administration proven
Executor John Harper
Administration Bond $1000
Surety Robert McCoy & Danl McDanel
Registers Docket Book C p 213
Inventory 19 Sep 1820 #104
Vendue 28 Nov 1923 #34
Account 8 Aug 1823 A #83
__________________________________________________________________________
Had a 1st wife possibly Eva Margaret HENRY bef 1755 PA- 1820 PA and had children from Larry Mentzer:
The 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp., raises the possibility that John Lay was married and had a number of children before his marriage to Hannah Henry in 1791. Found in this record are at least four children born before 1791. The Ziegler Church records, Mifflin Twp, Cumberland Co. PA state John, baptized 1801, son of EVA MARGARET and John Leh, sponsors, John Henry and Eva Margaret. In 1801, John Leh was married to Hannah. If Eva Margaret was John Lay's first wife, she died before 1791 and John (baptized 1801) was born before 1791, which is the marriage date for John and Hannah. Since the baptismal sponsors can often represent a significant relationship to the parents, I agree with K.E. Lay that it is possible John's first wife, Eva Margaret is a Henry and she may be the sister of John Henry who is listed as a sponsor. This is the only reference I have found that may indicate John Lay was married to Eva Margaret. According to the research of James Leh, this Eva Margaret is Margaret Fought. His reference is taken from two other web sites, which have no official reference. It is possible that this reference is taken from the St. Peter's Lutheran Church Records, Cumberland Co. PA which states Margareth Lee was a communicate on 9/13/1812. We know John was married to Hannah in 1812.
According to K.E. Lay's research, there was a John Lay in Capt. Dotterer's Co. from Frederick Twp. Phila Co. 22 April, 1777. The Revolutionary War Pension records often list family members and descendants, however I have not found a John Lay from Montgomery Co. listed in the index for these records. The older John Lay was listed in the Frederick Twp. Phila. Co. Tax lists in 1781, 1782 and 1783. He is also listed in the Septennial Census for 1786 at the same location. When the younger John Lay married Hannah, her father (Nicholas) was listed as living in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co., which was created from Phila. Co. Were Eva Margaret and John married near this location about 1775? I can't find any records regarding John and Eva Margaret or their children at his location. If John and Eva Margaret did live in this location and bearing children, they apparently didn't attend church, which in turn has created a problem for their descendants. I'm also doing research on the Henry family in the hope that I can find this Eva Margaret Henry. This search is also leading me to believe that John, Hannah and Eva Margaret Henry are siblings, children of Nicholas and Sophia (Adams) Henrich.
1767 Tax Lists: Brecknock Tp, Berks Co, PA, John LEY, 50 acres.
1768 Tax Lists: Brecknock Tp, Berks Co, PA, Johannes LEY, 50 acres.
1769 Tax List: U Salford Tp, Philadelphia Co, PA, John LAY no acres, bldgs, animals listed for taxes = 2 Tax (PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XIV, p 55).
May 1772 Oyer & Terminer Court papers, Berks Co PA: John Lee to be on a Grand Jury, but wasn't chosen, for a negroe wench named Lucy being beaten by her mistress with a knotted hickory stick and died.
Her mistress "not having the fear of God before her eyes but being moved and seduced by the in stigation of the Devil . . held the said Negro woman ( and with the stick beat her) upon the back, breastand arm . . . feloniously voluntarily and of her malice aforethought did knock and strike her . .
(causing) four mortal bruises of the length of three inches and breath of one inch each . . . (she) lauguished from said first day of April until the fourth day of April . . . did die . . . (and the inquest says her mistress) did kill and murder against the peace of our said Lordthe King his Crown and Dignity. But he jury found the mistress NOT Guilty othe the felony and murder.
13-14 May 1776 Oyer & Terminer Court pa17pers, Berks Co PA: John Lee to be on a Grand Jury for a white yeoman killing a former slave and accused of manslaughter for hiting the Negroe on the right side of his head with a stick on 11 Nov, the moral bruise being 2 incles long and 1/2 inch wide. The slave languished until the 13th of November when he died.
22 Apr 1777: John LAY in Capt Dotterer's Co of Phila Co, PA, Associators from Frederick Tp. (PA German Soc Proceedings, v. 17, p. 281).
1779 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, now Montgomery County, John LAY 300 pounds
Non- Associates (opposed military rule)
c1780 John Lay married Eva Margaret Henry? b bef 1755 PA d 1820 PA
1780 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, John LAY 3 2500 13 15
1781 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, John LAY.
1781 Tax List: Southwark East, Phila City, PA, John LEA
(PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XV, p 778).
1782 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, 1 horse = 6 + 1 cow = 4 + occupation = 90 = 100 pounds, John LAY
(PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XVI, p 165).
1783 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, 1 horse = 8 + 2 cows = 6 + occupation = 86 = 100 pounds, John LAY (PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XVI, p 549).
Montgomery Co formed in 1784 from Philadelphia Co.
1785 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Montgomery Co, PA, 100 - 7 6, John Lay
1787 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Montgomery Co PA,
John LAY - 3 5 pounds
The following are listed in the 1790 Montgomery Co PA census (in the remainder of the county other than Abington, Cheltenham, Springfield, and Moreland Tps, all near Philadelphia):
John LEY b bef 1774 with 2 white females
Henry LEY b bef 1774
John MAY b bef 1774 with 5 white females & 1 other free person
(No LEY or MAY listed in Montgomery Co in the 1800 census which could indicate that John LAY moved to Cumberland [later Perry] Co by 1800)
31 Jan 1791 marriage of Johnnes LEE, son of John LEE, to Hannah HEINRICH, dau of Nicholas HENRY of Frederick Tp, Montgomery Co, PA (Falkner Swamp Ref Ch records, Montgomery Co, PA).
Falkner Swamp Reformed Records, New Hanover Twp. Montgomery Co., PA:
John Lee, son of John Lee, m.1/21/1791 Hannah Henry, dau. of Nicholas Henry of Frederick Twp. Rev. Frederick Dellicker.
Jan 1792: Apparently living in Bucks Co, PA, since daughter Catharine LAY was born there 29 Jan 1792.
1793 Septennial Census, Dickinson Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
Thomas Lee farmer; John Lee farmer
1800 Septennial Census, Toboyne Tp, Perry Co PA:
John Lay, farmer
1800 Census, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John LAY, 6 males, 4 females, nearby landowners were Jno Barnett, Abm Dibow, Peter Henry, John Henry, Adam Nighday, the John Lay, Geo Libfritz, Abm Henry, George Connor. Joseph Wolfe, Isaac Leister
(Perry Co formed from Cumb Co in 1820).
Are these census records for John Lay who married Johanna Henry in 1791
The following are assumptions of family members:
1800 Census, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co, PA, John Lay:
Could this NOT be our family or are these children to a FIRST WIFE?
Males 6
1 - 10 1790-1800 Henry Lay 1801-1866
1 - 10 1790-1800 John Lay 1790/1800
1 - 16 1784-1800 ? (Child to 1st wife)
16 - 26 1774-1784 ? (Child to 1st wife)
16 - 26 1774-1784 ? (Child to 1st wife)
45 up bef 1755 (John Lay)
Females 4
1 - 10 1790-1800 Catharine Lay 1792-1876
1 - 10 1790-1800 ? (Child to 1st wife)
10 - 16 1784-1790 ? (Child to 1st wife)
45 up bef 1755 (date?Hannah Henry 1771-1850s)
Toboyne Tp, Cumberland Co, PA, 1810 Census, John Lay:
Males 4
0 - 9 1801-1810 Jacob Lay 1805-1884
10 - 15 1795-1800 Henry Lay 1801-1866
10 - 15 1795-1800 John Lay 1790/1800
45 up bef 1765 (John Lay)
Females 4
10 - 15 1795-1800 ? (Child to 1st wife)
16 - 25 1785-1794 Catharine Lay 1792-1876
16 - 25 1785-1794 ? (Child to 1st wife)
45 up bef 1765 (date?Hannah Henry 1771-1850s)
Toboyne Tp, Perry Co, PA, 1820 Census, Hannah Lay:
Males 3
0 - 10 1810-1820 Samuel Lay 1812-1871
10 - 16 1804-1810 Jacob Lay 1805-1884
16 - 26 1794-1804 Henry Lay 1801-1866
Females 2
0 - 10 1810-1820 ? (Child to Hannah)
26 - 45 1775-1794 (Hannah Henry 1771-1850s)
1805 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John LAY, 83 acres, no horses or cows
listed at end of alphabetical list with others such as:
John Henry, 100 acres of mountain land + 2 cows
then John Lay, 83 acres
Nedy Adam, 100 acres + 1 horse + 2 cows
Geo Caner, 200 acres
Thos Caner, 200 acres
Zeigler's Lutheran Ch, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John Leh, bpt 15 Jan 1801, son of John and Eva Margaret Leh
Sponsors: John and Eva Margaret Henry
1807 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
under "the people near the mountain" along with John Clouse (no land), Thos Canor, John Henry, Abraham Henry (no land), and then with "not in our township" beside John LAY's and John Negy's names
1810 Census, Toboyne Tp, Cumberland (later Perry) Co PA:
HOH John LAY
males
1 b bef 1765 (father John Lay bef 1755-c1820)
2 b 1795-1800 (sons John Lay 1790s-1830s & Henry Lay 1801-1866)
1 b 1801-1810 (son Jacob Lay 1805-1884)
females
1 b bef 1765 (mother Johannah Henry 1771-1850s)
2 b 1785-1794 (??)
1 b 1795-1800 (??)
nearby landowners were John Hogshaw, Susannah Evinger, George Coiner, John Shatto, John Dewatz, then John Lay, George Henry, Adam Neidigh, John Henry, John Henry Jr, John Clous, Thomas Conner, Jacob Henry, William Campbell
1814 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland (later Perry) Co PA:
John LEA, 167 acres, 2 horses, 3 cows, listed at end of Tp list under "property in Diehl's Valley" (probably Henry's, later Sheaffer's, Valley, Perry Co, as a Diehl took out an early land warrantee there) , along with nearby landowners John Clouse and John, George, Jacob, Peter, & Christy Henry, and Adam Neddah Sr & Jr
1817 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John Lay Sr, 200 acres @ 4 + 3 horses @ 45 + 4 cows @ 4 = $951 tax value
197552796
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co Will Index 1750-1937 K-S, Image 79 p. 92:
John Lay Sr Includes:
8 Aug 1823 A-83 Account Registers Docket C213 (Image 382)
16 Aug 1820 Administration proven
19 Sep 1820 Inventory #104
28 Nov 1823 Vendue List #34
Cumberland Co Courthouse:
To Wm Line Esq Register
Sir:
This is to certify that I do hereby along(?) relinquist and forever renounce all claim to the administration of my late husbands Estate and wish to have you appoint John Harper for that purpose as I have full confidence in him. (word?) my hand this 16th day of August 1820.
Hannah (her + mark) Lay - relict of John Lay Sr decd
Test
Christian Henry (signed)
16 Aug 1820 Letter of Administration, Cumberland Co PA Courthouse, Registers Docket Entry #C213 (PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co Administration Records 1759-1845 vol A-D, Image 382 P. 213):
John Lay dec'd
8 Nov 1821 Newspaper:
Notice
All persons having any demands against the estate of John Lay, sen'r, late of Toboyne township, Perry county. dec'd, or against the estate of William Henry, late of the same place, deceased, are requested to present them to the subscriber, on or before to 20th day of December next, properly authenticated, for settlement; and all persons who know themselves to stand indebted to either of the said estates, are requested to make immediate payment of their resoective debts, to the subscriber, as no longer indulgence can or will be given.
John Harper, Admr of said deceased
Mifflin township, Cumberland county
November 9, 1821
1824 Orphans Court Record, Perry Co PA (#26 1/2 & 46):
Guardian for Jacob Lay:
To the Honorable the Judges of the Orphan's Court of Perry Co PA.
The petition of Jacob Lay minor orphan son of John Lay late of Toboine Tp PA
Humbly herewith
That your partitioner's late father -- died leaving your petitioner a minor above the age of fourteen years (c1820) for whom no guardian hath been appointed to take care of his person and estate.
Your petitioner therefore prays? this honorable court to permit him to make charge of a guardian to take care of his person and estate of the said Samuel and he -- duly bound will --.
Jacob Lay (signed with an X)
1831 Perry Co PA, Two Plats A-033-011:
John Lay heirs (Plat 78A)
Along Laurel Run, SW Madison Tp
Survey 18 Nov 1831
Accepted 12 Jan 1832
___________________________________________
From Larry Mentger & James K Leh:
The Penn. Septennial Censuses for 1786 lists John Lay, Blacksmith, in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co. PA. The same records in the same location for 1793 lists John Lee and John Lee, Jr. The John Lee is apparently the John m. Catharine and the John Lee. Jr is their son (b. abt. 1755) who m. Hannah Henry. This record indicates John and Hannah Lay where living in Montgomery Co. and their daughter Catharine (b.1792) was born at this location. I feel the John Ley found in the 1790 Census for Montgomery Co, is the older John. A John Lay is found on the tax lists for 1781, 1782 & 1783 for the same location. I feel this person is also the older John. The Penn. Septennial Census does not list any John Lays (Ley) for 1800 in Montgomery Co. The Septennial Census for 1793 indicates the older John was still living in 1793 and the Falkner Swamp Church (above) lists him as dec'd for the marriage of his son Henry in 1796. Apparently this John Lee (Lay) died between 1793-1796.
The reference to PG Proc-Penn. German Proceedings. The reference to John Lay in Dotterer's is found in The Penn.-German in the Rev. War 1775-1783 by Henry M. Muhlenburg Richards: From the Penn.-German Society Proceedings and Addresses, V. 12: Gen. Publ. Co., Baltimore, MD 1978, 1991. It gives no age for our John. Another source below will take you to John Lay and to John Henry. You will also find Caspar Lay. The reference to John "allow'd on acct. of inability of body & est" ? may mean that he did not serve for physical reasons. Maybe he was too old. This enforces my speculation that this is the older John and the younger John was born later than 1755. Meaning also that he would not be the father of children born abt. 1774 as stated by the 1800 census.
Falkner Swamp Reformed Records, New Hanover Twp. Montgomery Co., PA:
John Lee, son of John Lee, m.1/21/1791 Hannah Henry, dau. of Nicholas Henry of Frederick Twp. Rev. Frederick Dellicker.
Unfortunately there is no birth reference for the John Lee who m. Hannah Henry. However, we do know that John was listed as the son of John Lee when he married Hannah in 1791. Furthermore, John and Catharine Leeh were sponsors for the baptismal for Catharine b.1792, daughter of John and Hanna. Catharine (b. 1792) was apparently named after her grandmother. I feel that John (b. abt.1755), Felix (b.1756), Elizabeth (b. 1760), Maria (b. 1762), Ann (b. 1765), Henry (b. 1767) and Peter (b. 1771) are the children of John and Catharine Lee and the grand children of Felix Leh.
Based upon the excellent research of K.E. Lay, it is obvious John and Hannah Lay moved to Cumberland County, PA. They apparently made this move sometime between 1793 and 1800, possibly with other members of her (Henry) family. Found in the 1800 Census, Mifflin Twp., Cumberland Co. is the family of John Lay living not far from the family of John Henry. These two families are again found in the1810 Census for Toboyne Twp., Cumberland Co. PA. This is interesting because the Penn. Septennial Census for 1800 for Toboyne Twp. lists John Lay, farmer, and John Henry, mason. Apparently, they move across the mountain from Mifflin Twp. to Toboyne Twp. by the end of 1800 after the federal census for that year was taken or they only owned property in Toboyne Twp. They are found in the 1810 Census for Toboyne Twp living not far from John Henry. The Penn. Septennial Censuses for Toboyne Twp. Cumberland Co. for 1800 list John Lay, farmer and John Henry, mason. The date for this report is 12/1800 and the location is correct. Apparently, John Lay and John Henry moved to Toboyne Twp. after the federal census was taken for that year or they only owned property in Toboyne Twp.
I have another idea, which is based primarily upon the lack of sufficient information regarding John Lay's first marriage. If it were not for the 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp. Cumberland Co. and the Ziegler Church records, it would be easy for us to assume the younger John (bp.1801) found in Cumberland Co. is the son of John and Hannah and was b.1793-95 in Montgomery Co. or Cumberland Co.
The children listed with John and Hannah in the 1810 Census Toboyne Twp. Cumberland Co. are all within the age range to be their children. Catharine (b.1792) and John (bp.1801) are without doubt. The other male children we know are Jacob (b.1805) and Henry (b.1801). The records of the St. Peter's Lutheran Church lists Margareth Lee, communed 9/13/1812 and Hannah Leh, confirmed 10/5/1817. Also listed is Anna Leh, communed 11/1/1818, but this I feel is a misspelling for Hannah. Assuming there is only one Lay family in this area, these females may be the daughters of John and Hannah. The only part of this census report I question is the age of Hannah, which is reported as 45+ when she is only 39.
However, the family of John Lay listed in the 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp. Cumberland Co is not easily understood. Again the age for Hannah is not correct but is listed as 45+ when she is only 29. In reference to their ages, there are at least four children listed who were born before the marriage of John and Hannah. While the 1810 Census makes some logical sense based upon many known facts, this 1800 Census does not. If some of these children descend from John and Eva Margaret they apparently didn't stay in the area very long and possibly moved west without leaving any records. Early census records are not reliable, especially when they are not supported by sufficient facts.
After researching a number of records including LDS films, I have not been able to find any other records for Eva Margaret as a Henry or in relationship to a John Lay. Based upon the Penn. Septennial Census (above), John (b.abt.1755) was living in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co. in 1793. In this same county, we can find records of his marriage to Hannah and their first-born child. If John was married before 1791 and had a number of children, there should also be some records. I feel church records are significant resources, however we must not permit our selves to be given the wrong impression by this same significance. The reference to Eva Margaret in the Ziegler Church records I feel is in question. It is possible the original record or translation is wrong. Since another Eva Margaret was a sponsor for this baptism, it is very possible the person who recorded this event duplicated the names. Since John Henry was the other sponsor for the baptism and possibly the brother of Hannah, I feel the church record should state Hannah is the mother of John (bp.1801).
At the present time, I feel there is not enough evidence to prove that John (1755) was married and had children before 1791. The only indication of this possible union is found in the records of Cumberland Co. I feel John was not married until 1791 and he was born at a later date then 1755. I also think he did not move to Cumberland Co. until after the death of his father which apparently took place between 1793-1796.
At the Montgomery Co. Historical Society in Norristown, PA, in the Falkner Swamp Church Record, Reformed Vol. I & II, 1748-1853 thefollowing entries were found:
Joh Lee, son of John Lee married Hannah Henry, daughter of Nicholas
Henry of Frederick Twp., Montgomery Co. 31 January 1791.
Maria daughter of John Lee married Jacob Oberdorff, son of Georg
Oberdorff, 11 December 1791.
All indications seem to point to the fact that this John Lee (b. c1755)
The 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp., raises the possibility that John Lay was married and had a number of children before his marriage to Hannah Henry in 1791. Found in this record are at least four children born before 1791. The Ziegler Church records, Mifflin Twp, Cumberland Co. PA state John, baptized 1801, son of EVA MARGARET and John Leh, sponsors, John Henry and Eva Margaret. In 1801, John Leh was married to Hannah. If Eva Margaret was John Lay's first wife, she died before 1791 and John (baptized 1801) was born before 1791, which is the marriage date for John and Hannah. Since the baptismal sponsors can often represent a significant relationship to the parents, I agree with K.E. Lay that it is possible John's first wife, Eva Margaret is a Henry and she may be the sister of John Henry who is listed as a sponsor. This is the only reference I have found that may indicate John Lay was married to Eva Margaret. According to the research of James Leh, this Eva Margaret is Margaret Fought. His reference is taken from two other web sites, which have no official reference. It is possible that this reference is taken from the St. Peter's Lutheran Church Records, Cumberland Co. PA which states Margareth Lee was a communicate on 9/13/1812. We know John was married to Hannah in 1812.
According to K.E. Lay's research, there was a John Lay in Capt. Dotterer's Co. from Frederick Twp. Phila Co. 22 April, 1777. The Revolutionary War Pension records often list family members and descendants, however I have not found a John Lay from Montgomery Co. listed in the index for these records. The older John Lay was listed in the Frederick Twp. Phila. Co. Tax lists in 1781, 1782 and 1783. He is also listed in the Septennial Census for 1786 at the same location. When the younger John Lay married Hannah, her father (Nicholas) was listed as living in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co., which was created from Phila. Co. Were Eva Margaret and John married near this location about 1775? I can't find any records regarding John and Eva Margaret or their children at his location. If John and Eva Margaret did live in this location and bearing children, they apparently didn't attend church, which in turn has created a problem for their descendants. I'm also doing research on the Henry family in the hope that I can find this Eva Margaret Henry. This search is also leading me to believe that John, Hannah and Eva Margaret Henry are siblings, children of Nicholas and Sophia (Adams) Henrich.
John Lay Sr decd & John Lay Jr in Cumberland & Perry Co PA in Probate Records online around 1820:
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Perry Co PA, Orphans Ct Dockets Index 1820-1950, p243, Image online 348:
John Loy # 18 ½,
John Lay #26 ½,
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Perry Co PA, Orphans Ct Dockets 1820-1845 Vol A-C:
Image Online 18:
John Lay decd, Guardian appoint for Samuel Lay p. 46
John Lay decd, Guardian appoint for Jacob Lay p. 46
(Many citations for Michael Loy decd)
Image online 58, p. 46, 3 Feb 1824:
"The Petition of Christian Henry cousin and next friend of Samuel Lay was read to the court stating that John Lay late of Toboyne Township died leaving his son the said Samuel Lay a minor under the age of fourteen years without any guardian to take care of his person and estate and praying the court to appoint some suitable person to take care of the person and estate of the said minor.
Whereupon the court appoints Christian Henry to be the Guardian of the said minor."
Image online 58, p. 46, 3 Feb 1824:
"The Petition of Jacob Lay minor son of Jacob? Lay late of Toboyne Township died leaving his son above the age of fourteen years and praying the court to appoint some suitable person to take care of the person and estate
Whereupon the court appoints Christian Henry to be the Guardian over the person and estate of the said minor."
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Administration Records 1750-1845:
None
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Appearance Dockets 1798-1807:
Alphabetical by date, Not indexed
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Orphans Court Dockets 1815-1825;
**1820 Court Records Online Image 403 (p. 120) to 445 (p. 265) would review online 145 pages.
Only indexed 1880-1929
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Will Index 1750-1937 L, p 91, Image online 79:
John Lay Sr
Letters 16 Aug 1820 A, administration proven
Executor John Harper
Administration Bond $1000
Surety Robert McCoy & Danl McDanel
Registers Docket Book C p 213
Inventory 19 Sep 1820 #104
Vendue 28 Nov 1923 #34
Account 8 Aug 1823 A #83
__________________________________________________________________________
Had a 1st wife possibly Eva Margaret HENRY bef 1755 PA- 1820 PA and had children from Larry Mentzer:
The 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp., raises the possibility that John Lay was married and had a number of children before his marriage to Hannah Henry in 1791. Found in this record are at least four children born before 1791. The Ziegler Church records, Mifflin Twp, Cumberland Co. PA state John, baptized 1801, son of EVA MARGARET and John Leh, sponsors, John Henry and Eva Margaret. In 1801, John Leh was married to Hannah. If Eva Margaret was John Lay's first wife, she died before 1791 and John (baptized 1801) was born before 1791, which is the marriage date for John and Hannah. Since the baptismal sponsors can often represent a significant relationship to the parents, I agree with K.E. Lay that it is possible John's first wife, Eva Margaret is a Henry and she may be the sister of John Henry who is listed as a sponsor. This is the only reference I have found that may indicate John Lay was married to Eva Margaret. According to the research of James Leh, this Eva Margaret is Margaret Fought. His reference is taken from two other web sites, which have no official reference. It is possible that this reference is taken from the St. Peter's Lutheran Church Records, Cumberland Co. PA which states Margareth Lee was a communicate on 9/13/1812. We know John was married to Hannah in 1812.
According to K.E. Lay's research, there was a John Lay in Capt. Dotterer's Co. from Frederick Twp. Phila Co. 22 April, 1777. The Revolutionary War Pension records often list family members and descendants, however I have not found a John Lay from Montgomery Co. listed in the index for these records. The older John Lay was listed in the Frederick Twp. Phila. Co. Tax lists in 1781, 1782 and 1783. He is also listed in the Septennial Census for 1786 at the same location. When the younger John Lay married Hannah, her father (Nicholas) was listed as living in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co., which was created from Phila. Co. Were Eva Margaret and John married near this location about 1775? I can't find any records regarding John and Eva Margaret or their children at his location. If John and Eva Margaret did live in this location and bearing children, they apparently didn't attend church, which in turn has created a problem for their descendants. I'm also doing research on the Henry family in the hope that I can find this Eva Margaret Henry. This search is also leading me to believe that John, Hannah and Eva Margaret Henry are siblings, children of Nicholas and Sophia (Adams) Henrich.
1767 Tax Lists: Brecknock Tp, Berks Co, PA, John LEY, 50 acres.
1768 Tax Lists: Brecknock Tp, Berks Co, PA, Johannes LEY, 50 acres.
1769 Tax List: U Salford Tp, Philadelphia Co, PA, John LAY no acres, bldgs, animals listed for taxes = 2 Tax (PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XIV, p 55).
May 1772 Oyer & Terminer Court papers, Berks Co PA: John Lee to be on a Grand Jury, but wasn't chosen, for a negroe wench named Lucy being beaten by her mistress with a knotted hickory stick and died.
Her mistress "not having the fear of God before her eyes but being moved and seduced by the in stigation of the Devil . . held the said Negro woman ( and with the stick beat her) upon the back, breastand arm . . . feloniously voluntarily and of her malice aforethought did knock and strike her . .
(causing) four mortal bruises of the length of three inches and breath of one inch each . . . (she) lauguished from said first day of April until the fourth day of April . . . did die . . . (and the inquest says her mistress) did kill and murder against the peace of our said Lordthe King his Crown and Dignity. But he jury found the mistress NOT Guilty othe the felony and murder.
13-14 May 1776 Oyer & Terminer Court pa17pers, Berks Co PA: John Lee to be on a Grand Jury for a white yeoman killing a former slave and accused of manslaughter for hiting the Negroe on the right side of his head with a stick on 11 Nov, the moral bruise being 2 incles long and 1/2 inch wide. The slave languished until the 13th of November when he died.
22 Apr 1777: John LAY in Capt Dotterer's Co of Phila Co, PA, Associators from Frederick Tp. (PA German Soc Proceedings, v. 17, p. 281).
1779 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, now Montgomery County, John LAY 300 pounds
Non- Associates (opposed military rule)
c1780 John Lay married Eva Margaret Henry? b bef 1755 PA d 1820 PA
1780 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, John LAY 3 2500 13 15
1781 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, John LAY.
1781 Tax List: Southwark East, Phila City, PA, John LEA
(PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XV, p 778).
1782 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, 1 horse = 6 + 1 cow = 4 + occupation = 90 = 100 pounds, John LAY
(PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XVI, p 165).
1783 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, 1 horse = 8 + 2 cows = 6 + occupation = 86 = 100 pounds, John LAY (PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XVI, p 549).
Montgomery Co formed in 1784 from Philadelphia Co.
1785 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Montgomery Co, PA, 100 - 7 6, John Lay
1787 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Montgomery Co PA,
John LAY - 3 5 pounds
The following are listed in the 1790 Montgomery Co PA census (in the remainder of the county other than Abington, Cheltenham, Springfield, and Moreland Tps, all near Philadelphia):
John LEY b bef 1774 with 2 white females
Henry LEY b bef 1774
John MAY b bef 1774 with 5 white females & 1 other free person
(No LEY or MAY listed in Montgomery Co in the 1800 census which could indicate that John LAY moved to Cumberland [later Perry] Co by 1800)
31 Jan 1791 marriage of Johnnes LEE, son of John LEE, to Hannah HEINRICH, dau of Nicholas HENRY of Frederick Tp, Montgomery Co, PA (Falkner Swamp Ref Ch records, Montgomery Co, PA).
Falkner Swamp Reformed Records, New Hanover Twp. Montgomery Co., PA:
John Lee, son of John Lee, m.1/21/1791 Hannah Henry, dau. of Nicholas Henry of Frederick Twp. Rev. Frederick Dellicker.
Jan 1792: Apparently living in Bucks Co, PA, since daughter Catharine LAY was born there 29 Jan 1792.
1793 Septennial Census, Dickinson Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
Thomas Lee farmer; John Lee farmer
1800 Septennial Census, Toboyne Tp, Perry Co PA:
John Lay, farmer
1800 Census, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John LAY, 6 males, 4 females, nearby landowners were Jno Barnett, Abm Dibow, Peter Henry, John Henry, Adam Nighday, the John Lay, Geo Libfritz, Abm Henry, George Connor. Joseph Wolfe, Isaac Leister
(Perry Co formed from Cumb Co in 1820).
Are these census records for John Lay who married Johanna Henry in 1791
The following are assumptions of family members:
1800 Census, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co, PA, John Lay:
Could this NOT be our family or are these children to a FIRST WIFE?
Males 6
1 - 10 1790-1800 Henry Lay 1801-1866
1 - 10 1790-1800 John Lay 1790/1800
1 - 16 1784-1800 ? (Child to 1st wife)
16 - 26 1774-1784 ? (Child to 1st wife)
16 - 26 1774-1784 ? (Child to 1st wife)
45 up bef 1755 (John Lay)
Females 4
1 - 10 1790-1800 Catharine Lay 1792-1876
1 - 10 1790-1800 ? (Child to 1st wife)
10 - 16 1784-1790 ? (Child to 1st wife)
45 up bef 1755 (date?Hannah Henry 1771-1850s)
Toboyne Tp, Cumberland Co, PA, 1810 Census, John Lay:
Males 4
0 - 9 1801-1810 Jacob Lay 1805-1884
10 - 15 1795-1800 Henry Lay 1801-1866
10 - 15 1795-1800 John Lay 1790/1800
45 up bef 1765 (John Lay)
Females 4
10 - 15 1795-1800 ? (Child to 1st wife)
16 - 25 1785-1794 Catharine Lay 1792-1876
16 - 25 1785-1794 ? (Child to 1st wife)
45 up bef 1765 (date?Hannah Henry 1771-1850s)
Toboyne Tp, Perry Co, PA, 1820 Census, Hannah Lay:
Males 3
0 - 10 1810-1820 Samuel Lay 1812-1871
10 - 16 1804-1810 Jacob Lay 1805-1884
16 - 26 1794-1804 Henry Lay 1801-1866
Females 2
0 - 10 1810-1820 ? (Child to Hannah)
26 - 45 1775-1794 (Hannah Henry 1771-1850s)
1805 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John LAY, 83 acres, no horses or cows
listed at end of alphabetical list with others such as:
John Henry, 100 acres of mountain land + 2 cows
then John Lay, 83 acres
Nedy Adam, 100 acres + 1 horse + 2 cows
Geo Caner, 200 acres
Thos Caner, 200 acres
Zeigler's Lutheran Ch, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John Leh, bpt 15 Jan 1801, son of John and Eva Margaret Leh
Sponsors: John and Eva Margaret Henry
1807 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
under "the people near the mountain" along with John Clouse (no land), Thos Canor, John Henry, Abraham Henry (no land), and then with "not in our township" beside John LAY's and John Negy's names
1810 Census, Toboyne Tp, Cumberland (later Perry) Co PA:
HOH John LAY
males
1 b bef 1765 (father John Lay bef 1755-c1820)
2 b 1795-1800 (sons John Lay 1790s-1830s & Henry Lay 1801-1866)
1 b 1801-1810 (son Jacob Lay 1805-1884)
females
1 b bef 1765 (mother Johannah Henry 1771-1850s)
2 b 1785-1794 (??)
1 b 1795-1800 (??)
nearby landowners were John Hogshaw, Susannah Evinger, George Coiner, John Shatto, John Dewatz, then John Lay, George Henry, Adam Neidigh, John Henry, John Henry Jr, John Clous, Thomas Conner, Jacob Henry, William Campbell
1814 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland (later Perry) Co PA:
John LEA, 167 acres, 2 horses, 3 cows, listed at end of Tp list under "property in Diehl's Valley" (probably Henry's, later Sheaffer's, Valley, Perry Co, as a Diehl took out an early land warrantee there) , along with nearby landowners John Clouse and John, George, Jacob, Peter, & Christy Henry, and Adam Neddah Sr & Jr
1817 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John Lay Sr, 200 acres @ 4 + 3 horses @ 45 + 4 cows @ 4 = $951 tax value
197552796
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co Will Index 1750-1937 K-S, Image 79 p. 92:
John Lay Sr Includes:
8 Aug 1823 A-83 Account Registers Docket C213 (Image 382)
16 Aug 1820 Administration proven
19 Sep 1820 Inventory #104
28 Nov 1823 Vendue List #34
Cumberland Co Courthouse:
To Wm Line Esq Register
Sir:
This is to certify that I do hereby along(?) relinquist and forever renounce all claim to the administration of my late husbands Estate and wish to have you appoint John Harper for that purpose as I have full confidence in him. (word?) my hand this 16th day of August 1820.
Hannah (her + mark) Lay - relict of John Lay Sr decd
Test
Christian Henry (signed)
16 Aug 1820 Letter of Administration, Cumberland Co PA Courthouse, Registers Docket Entry #C213 (PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co Administration Records 1759-1845 vol A-D, Image 382 P. 213):
John Lay dec'd
8 Nov 1821 Newspaper:
Notice
All persons having any demands against the estate of John Lay, sen'r, late of Toboyne township, Perry county. dec'd, or against the estate of William Henry, late of the same place, deceased, are requested to present them to the subscriber, on or before to 20th day of December next, properly authenticated, for settlement; and all persons who know themselves to stand indebted to either of the said estates, are requested to make immediate payment of their resoective debts, to the subscriber, as no longer indulgence can or will be given.
John Harper, Admr of said deceased
Mifflin township, Cumberland county
November 9, 1821
1824 Orphans Court Record, Perry Co PA (#26 1/2 & 46):
Guardian for Jacob Lay:
To the Honorable the Judges of the Orphan's Court of Perry Co PA.
The petition of Jacob Lay minor orphan son of John Lay late of Toboine Tp PA
Humbly herewith
That your partitioner's late father -- died leaving your petitioner a minor above the age of fourteen years (c1820) for whom no guardian hath been appointed to take care of his person and estate.
Your petitioner therefore prays? this honorable court to permit him to make charge of a guardian to take care of his person and estate of the said Samuel and he -- duly bound will --.
Jacob Lay (signed with an X)
1831 Perry Co PA, Two Plats A-033-011:
John Lay heirs (Plat 78A)
Along Laurel Run, SW Madison Tp
Survey 18 Nov 1831
Accepted 12 Jan 1832
___________________________________________
From Larry Mentger & James K Leh:
The Penn. Septennial Censuses for 1786 lists John Lay, Blacksmith, in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co. PA. The same records in the same location for 1793 lists John Lee and John Lee, Jr. The John Lee is apparently the John m. Catharine and the John Lee. Jr is their son (b. abt. 1755) who m. Hannah Henry. This record indicates John and Hannah Lay where living in Montgomery Co. and their daughter Catharine (b.1792) was born at this location. I feel the John Ley found in the 1790 Census for Montgomery Co, is the older John. A John Lay is found on the tax lists for 1781, 1782 & 1783 for the same location. I feel this person is also the older John. The Penn. Septennial Census does not list any John Lays (Ley) for 1800 in Montgomery Co. The Septennial Census for 1793 indicates the older John was still living in 1793 and the Falkner Swamp Church (above) lists him as dec'd for the marriage of his son Henry in 1796. Apparently this John Lee (Lay) died between 1793-1796.
The reference to PG Proc-Penn. German Proceedings. The reference to John Lay in Dotterer's is found in The Penn.-German in the Rev. War 1775-1783 by Henry M. Muhlenburg Richards: From the Penn.-German Society Proceedings and Addresses, V. 12: Gen. Publ. Co., Baltimore, MD 1978, 1991. It gives no age for our John. Another source below will take you to John Lay and to John Henry. You will also find Caspar Lay. The reference to John "allow'd on acct. of inability of body & est" ? may mean that he did not serve for physical reasons. Maybe he was too old. This enforces my speculation that this is the older John and the younger John was born later than 1755. Meaning also that he would not be the father of children born abt. 1774 as stated by the 1800 census.
Falkner Swamp Reformed Records, New Hanover Twp. Montgomery Co., PA:
John Lee, son of John Lee, m.1/21/1791 Hannah Henry, dau. of Nicholas Henry of Frederick Twp. Rev. Frederick Dellicker.
Unfortunately there is no birth reference for the John Lee who m. Hannah Henry. However, we do know that John was listed as the son of John Lee when he married Hannah in 1791. Furthermore, John and Catharine Leeh were sponsors for the baptismal for Catharine b.1792, daughter of John and Hanna. Catharine (b. 1792) was apparently named after her grandmother. I feel that John (b. abt.1755), Felix (b.1756), Elizabeth (b. 1760), Maria (b. 1762), Ann (b. 1765), Henry (b. 1767) and Peter (b. 1771) are the children of John and Catharine Lee and the grand children of Felix Leh.
Based upon the excellent research of K.E. Lay, it is obvious John and Hannah Lay moved to Cumberland County, PA. They apparently made this move sometime between 1793 and 1800, possibly with other members of her (Henry) family. Found in the 1800 Census, Mifflin Twp., Cumberland Co. is the family of John Lay living not far from the family of John Henry. These two families are again found in the1810 Census for Toboyne Twp., Cumberland Co. PA. This is interesting because the Penn. Septennial Census for 1800 for Toboyne Twp. lists John Lay, farmer, and John Henry, mason. Apparently, they move across the mountain from Mifflin Twp. to Toboyne Twp. by the end of 1800 after the federal census for that year was taken or they only owned property in Toboyne Twp. They are found in the 1810 Census for Toboyne Twp living not far from John Henry. The Penn. Septennial Censuses for Toboyne Twp. Cumberland Co. for 1800 list John Lay, farmer and John Henry, mason. The date for this report is 12/1800 and the location is correct. Apparently, John Lay and John Henry moved to Toboyne Twp. after the federal census was taken for that year or they only owned property in Toboyne Twp.
I have another idea, which is based primarily upon the lack of sufficient information regarding John Lay's first marriage. If it were not for the 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp. Cumberland Co. and the Ziegler Church records, it would be easy for us to assume the younger John (bp.1801) found in Cumberland Co. is the son of John and Hannah and was b.1793-95 in Montgomery Co. or Cumberland Co.
The children listed with John and Hannah in the 1810 Census Toboyne Twp. Cumberland Co. are all within the age range to be their children. Catharine (b.1792) and John (bp.1801) are without doubt. The other male children we know are Jacob (b.1805) and Henry (b.1801). The records of the St. Peter's Lutheran Church lists Margareth Lee, communed 9/13/1812 and Hannah Leh, confirmed 10/5/1817. Also listed is Anna Leh, communed 11/1/1818, but this I feel is a misspelling for Hannah. Assuming there is only one Lay family in this area, these females may be the daughters of John and Hannah. The only part of this census report I question is the age of Hannah, which is reported as 45+ when she is only 39.
However, the family of John Lay listed in the 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp. Cumberland Co is not easily understood. Again the age for Hannah is not correct but is listed as 45+ when she is only 29. In reference to their ages, there are at least four children listed who were born before the marriage of John and Hannah. While the 1810 Census makes some logical sense based upon many known facts, this 1800 Census does not. If some of these children descend from John and Eva Margaret they apparently didn't stay in the area very long and possibly moved west without leaving any records. Early census records are not reliable, especially when they are not supported by sufficient facts.
After researching a number of records including LDS films, I have not been able to find any other records for Eva Margaret as a Henry or in relationship to a John Lay. Based upon the Penn. Septennial Census (above), John (b.abt.1755) was living in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co. in 1793. In this same county, we can find records of his marriage to Hannah and their first-born child. If John was married before 1791 and had a number of children, there should also be some records. I feel church records are significant resources, however we must not permit our selves to be given the wrong impression by this same significance. The reference to Eva Margaret in the Ziegler Church records I feel is in question. It is possible the original record or translation is wrong. Since another Eva Margaret was a sponsor for this baptism, it is very possible the person who recorded this event duplicated the names. Since John Henry was the other sponsor for the baptism and possibly the brother of Hannah, I feel the church record should state Hannah is the mother of John (bp.1801).
At the present time, I feel there is not enough evidence to prove that John (1755) was married and had children before 1791. The only indication of this possible union is found in the records of Cumberland Co. I feel John was not married until 1791 and he was born at a later date then 1755. I also think he did not move to Cumberland Co. until after the death of his father which apparently took place between 1793-1796.
At the Montgomery Co. Historical Society in Norristown, PA, in the Falkner Swamp Church Record, Reformed Vol. I & II, 1748-1853 thefollowing entries were found:
Joh Lee, son of John Lee married Hannah Henry, daughter of Nicholas
Henry of Frederick Twp., Montgomery Co. 31 January 1791.
Maria daughter of John Lee married Jacob Oberdorff, son of Georg
Oberdorff, 11 December 1791.
All indications seem to point to the fact that this John Lee (b. c1755)
The 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp., raises the possibility that John Lay was married and had a number of children before his marriage to Hannah Henry in 1791. Found in this record are at least four children born before 1791. The Ziegler Church records, Mifflin Twp, Cumberland Co. PA state John, baptized 1801, son of EVA MARGARET and John Leh, sponsors, John Henry and Eva Margaret. In 1801, John Leh was married to Hannah. If Eva Margaret was John Lay's first wife, she died before 1791 and John (baptized 1801) was born before 1791, which is the marriage date for John and Hannah. Since the baptismal sponsors can often represent a significant relationship to the parents, I agree with K.E. Lay that it is possible John's first wife, Eva Margaret is a Henry and she may be the sister of John Henry who is listed as a sponsor. This is the only reference I have found that may indicate John Lay was married to Eva Margaret. According to the research of James Leh, this Eva Margaret is Margaret Fought. His reference is taken from two other web sites, which have no official reference. It is possible that this reference is taken from the St. Peter's Lutheran Church Records, Cumberland Co. PA which states Margareth Lee was a communicate on 9/13/1812. We know John was married to Hannah in 1812.
According to K.E. Lay's research, there was a John Lay in Capt. Dotterer's Co. from Frederick Twp. Phila Co. 22 April, 1777. The Revolutionary War Pension records often list family members and descendants, however I have not found a John Lay from Montgomery Co. listed in the index for these records. The older John Lay was listed in the Frederick Twp. Phila. Co. Tax lists in 1781, 1782 and 1783. He is also listed in the Septennial Census for 1786 at the same location. When the younger John Lay married Hannah, her father (Nicholas) was listed as living in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co., which was created from Phila. Co. Were Eva Margaret and John married near this location about 1775? I can't find any records regarding John and Eva Margaret or their children at his location. If John and Eva Margaret did live in this location and bearing children, they apparently didn't attend church, which in turn has created a problem for their descendants. I'm also doing research on the Henry family in the hope that I can find this Eva Margaret Henry. This search is also leading me to believe that John, Hannah and Eva Margaret Henry are siblings, children of Nicholas and Sophia (Adams) Henrich.
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Perry Co PA, Orphans Ct Dockets Index 1820-1950, p243, Image online 348:
John Loy # 18 ½,
John Lay #26 ½,
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Perry Co PA, Orphans Ct Dockets 1820-1845 Vol A-C:
Image Online 18:
John Lay decd, Guardian appoint for Samuel Lay p. 46
John Lay decd, Guardian appoint for Jacob Lay p. 46
(Many citations for Michael Loy decd)
Image online 58, p. 46, 3 Feb 1824:
"The Petition of Christian Henry cousin and next friend of Samuel Lay was read to the court stating that John Lay late of Toboyne Township died leaving his son the said Samuel Lay a minor under the age of fourteen years without any guardian to take care of his person and estate and praying the court to appoint some suitable person to take care of the person and estate of the said minor.
Whereupon the court appoints Christian Henry to be the Guardian of the said minor."
Image online 58, p. 46, 3 Feb 1824:
"The Petition of Jacob Lay minor son of Jacob? Lay late of Toboyne Township died leaving his son above the age of fourteen years and praying the court to appoint some suitable person to take care of the person and estate
Whereupon the court appoints Christian Henry to be the Guardian over the person and estate of the said minor."
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Administration Records 1750-1845:
None
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Appearance Dockets 1798-1807:
Alphabetical by date, Not indexed
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Orphans Court Dockets 1815-1825;
**1820 Court Records Online Image 403 (p. 120) to 445 (p. 265) would review online 145 pages.
Only indexed 1880-1929
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co PA, Will Index 1750-1937 L, p 91, Image online 79:
John Lay Sr
Letters 16 Aug 1820 A, administration proven
Executor John Harper
Administration Bond $1000
Surety Robert McCoy & Danl McDanel
Registers Docket Book C p 213
Inventory 19 Sep 1820 #104
Vendue 28 Nov 1923 #34
Account 8 Aug 1823 A #83
__________________________________________________________________________
Had a 1st wife possibly Eva Margaret HENRY bef 1755 PA- 1820 PA and had children from Larry Mentzer:
The 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp., raises the possibility that John Lay was married and had a number of children before his marriage to Hannah Henry in 1791. Found in this record are at least four children born before 1791. The Ziegler Church records, Mifflin Twp, Cumberland Co. PA state John, baptized 1801, son of EVA MARGARET and John Leh, sponsors, John Henry and Eva Margaret. In 1801, John Leh was married to Hannah. If Eva Margaret was John Lay's first wife, she died before 1791 and John (baptized 1801) was born before 1791, which is the marriage date for John and Hannah. Since the baptismal sponsors can often represent a significant relationship to the parents, I agree with K.E. Lay that it is possible John's first wife, Eva Margaret is a Henry and she may be the sister of John Henry who is listed as a sponsor. This is the only reference I have found that may indicate John Lay was married to Eva Margaret. According to the research of James Leh, this Eva Margaret is Margaret Fought. His reference is taken from two other web sites, which have no official reference. It is possible that this reference is taken from the St. Peter's Lutheran Church Records, Cumberland Co. PA which states Margareth Lee was a communicate on 9/13/1812. We know John was married to Hannah in 1812.
According to K.E. Lay's research, there was a John Lay in Capt. Dotterer's Co. from Frederick Twp. Phila Co. 22 April, 1777. The Revolutionary War Pension records often list family members and descendants, however I have not found a John Lay from Montgomery Co. listed in the index for these records. The older John Lay was listed in the Frederick Twp. Phila. Co. Tax lists in 1781, 1782 and 1783. He is also listed in the Septennial Census for 1786 at the same location. When the younger John Lay married Hannah, her father (Nicholas) was listed as living in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co., which was created from Phila. Co. Were Eva Margaret and John married near this location about 1775? I can't find any records regarding John and Eva Margaret or their children at his location. If John and Eva Margaret did live in this location and bearing children, they apparently didn't attend church, which in turn has created a problem for their descendants. I'm also doing research on the Henry family in the hope that I can find this Eva Margaret Henry. This search is also leading me to believe that John, Hannah and Eva Margaret Henry are siblings, children of Nicholas and Sophia (Adams) Henrich.
1767 Tax Lists: Brecknock Tp, Berks Co, PA, John LEY, 50 acres.
1768 Tax Lists: Brecknock Tp, Berks Co, PA, Johannes LEY, 50 acres.
1769 Tax List: U Salford Tp, Philadelphia Co, PA, John LAY no acres, bldgs, animals listed for taxes = 2 Tax (PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XIV, p 55).
May 1772 Oyer & Terminer Court papers, Berks Co PA: John Lee to be on a Grand Jury, but wasn't chosen, for a negroe wench named Lucy being beaten by her mistress with a knotted hickory stick and died.
Her mistress "not having the fear of God before her eyes but being moved and seduced by the in stigation of the Devil . . held the said Negro woman ( and with the stick beat her) upon the back, breastand arm . . . feloniously voluntarily and of her malice aforethought did knock and strike her . .
(causing) four mortal bruises of the length of three inches and breath of one inch each . . . (she) lauguished from said first day of April until the fourth day of April . . . did die . . . (and the inquest says her mistress) did kill and murder against the peace of our said Lordthe King his Crown and Dignity. But he jury found the mistress NOT Guilty othe the felony and murder.
13-14 May 1776 Oyer & Terminer Court pa17pers, Berks Co PA: John Lee to be on a Grand Jury for a white yeoman killing a former slave and accused of manslaughter for hiting the Negroe on the right side of his head with a stick on 11 Nov, the moral bruise being 2 incles long and 1/2 inch wide. The slave languished until the 13th of November when he died.
22 Apr 1777: John LAY in Capt Dotterer's Co of Phila Co, PA, Associators from Frederick Tp. (PA German Soc Proceedings, v. 17, p. 281).
1779 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, now Montgomery County, John LAY 300 pounds
Non- Associates (opposed military rule)
c1780 John Lay married Eva Margaret Henry? b bef 1755 PA d 1820 PA
1780 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, John LAY 3 2500 13 15
1781 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, John LAY.
1781 Tax List: Southwark East, Phila City, PA, John LEA
(PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XV, p 778).
1782 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, 1 horse = 6 + 1 cow = 4 + occupation = 90 = 100 pounds, John LAY
(PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XVI, p 165).
1783 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Phila Co, PA, 1 horse = 8 + 2 cows = 6 + occupation = 86 = 100 pounds, John LAY (PA Archives, 3rd Series, v XVI, p 549).
Montgomery Co formed in 1784 from Philadelphia Co.
1785 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Montgomery Co, PA, 100 - 7 6, John Lay
1787 Tax List: Frederick Tp, Montgomery Co PA,
John LAY - 3 5 pounds
The following are listed in the 1790 Montgomery Co PA census (in the remainder of the county other than Abington, Cheltenham, Springfield, and Moreland Tps, all near Philadelphia):
John LEY b bef 1774 with 2 white females
Henry LEY b bef 1774
John MAY b bef 1774 with 5 white females & 1 other free person
(No LEY or MAY listed in Montgomery Co in the 1800 census which could indicate that John LAY moved to Cumberland [later Perry] Co by 1800)
31 Jan 1791 marriage of Johnnes LEE, son of John LEE, to Hannah HEINRICH, dau of Nicholas HENRY of Frederick Tp, Montgomery Co, PA (Falkner Swamp Ref Ch records, Montgomery Co, PA).
Falkner Swamp Reformed Records, New Hanover Twp. Montgomery Co., PA:
John Lee, son of John Lee, m.1/21/1791 Hannah Henry, dau. of Nicholas Henry of Frederick Twp. Rev. Frederick Dellicker.
Jan 1792: Apparently living in Bucks Co, PA, since daughter Catharine LAY was born there 29 Jan 1792.
1793 Septennial Census, Dickinson Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
Thomas Lee farmer; John Lee farmer
1800 Septennial Census, Toboyne Tp, Perry Co PA:
John Lay, farmer
1800 Census, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John LAY, 6 males, 4 females, nearby landowners were Jno Barnett, Abm Dibow, Peter Henry, John Henry, Adam Nighday, the John Lay, Geo Libfritz, Abm Henry, George Connor. Joseph Wolfe, Isaac Leister
(Perry Co formed from Cumb Co in 1820).
Are these census records for John Lay who married Johanna Henry in 1791
The following are assumptions of family members:
1800 Census, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co, PA, John Lay:
Could this NOT be our family or are these children to a FIRST WIFE?
Males 6
1 - 10 1790-1800 Henry Lay 1801-1866
1 - 10 1790-1800 John Lay 1790/1800
1 - 16 1784-1800 ? (Child to 1st wife)
16 - 26 1774-1784 ? (Child to 1st wife)
16 - 26 1774-1784 ? (Child to 1st wife)
45 up bef 1755 (John Lay)
Females 4
1 - 10 1790-1800 Catharine Lay 1792-1876
1 - 10 1790-1800 ? (Child to 1st wife)
10 - 16 1784-1790 ? (Child to 1st wife)
45 up bef 1755 (date?Hannah Henry 1771-1850s)
Toboyne Tp, Cumberland Co, PA, 1810 Census, John Lay:
Males 4
0 - 9 1801-1810 Jacob Lay 1805-1884
10 - 15 1795-1800 Henry Lay 1801-1866
10 - 15 1795-1800 John Lay 1790/1800
45 up bef 1765 (John Lay)
Females 4
10 - 15 1795-1800 ? (Child to 1st wife)
16 - 25 1785-1794 Catharine Lay 1792-1876
16 - 25 1785-1794 ? (Child to 1st wife)
45 up bef 1765 (date?Hannah Henry 1771-1850s)
Toboyne Tp, Perry Co, PA, 1820 Census, Hannah Lay:
Males 3
0 - 10 1810-1820 Samuel Lay 1812-1871
10 - 16 1804-1810 Jacob Lay 1805-1884
16 - 26 1794-1804 Henry Lay 1801-1866
Females 2
0 - 10 1810-1820 ? (Child to Hannah)
26 - 45 1775-1794 (Hannah Henry 1771-1850s)
1805 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John LAY, 83 acres, no horses or cows
listed at end of alphabetical list with others such as:
John Henry, 100 acres of mountain land + 2 cows
then John Lay, 83 acres
Nedy Adam, 100 acres + 1 horse + 2 cows
Geo Caner, 200 acres
Thos Caner, 200 acres
Zeigler's Lutheran Ch, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John Leh, bpt 15 Jan 1801, son of John and Eva Margaret Leh
Sponsors: John and Eva Margaret Henry
1807 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
under "the people near the mountain" along with John Clouse (no land), Thos Canor, John Henry, Abraham Henry (no land), and then with "not in our township" beside John LAY's and John Negy's names
1810 Census, Toboyne Tp, Cumberland (later Perry) Co PA:
HOH John LAY
males
1 b bef 1765 (father John Lay bef 1755-c1820)
2 b 1795-1800 (sons John Lay 1790s-1830s & Henry Lay 1801-1866)
1 b 1801-1810 (son Jacob Lay 1805-1884)
females
1 b bef 1765 (mother Johannah Henry 1771-1850s)
2 b 1785-1794 (??)
1 b 1795-1800 (??)
nearby landowners were John Hogshaw, Susannah Evinger, George Coiner, John Shatto, John Dewatz, then John Lay, George Henry, Adam Neidigh, John Henry, John Henry Jr, John Clous, Thomas Conner, Jacob Henry, William Campbell
1814 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland (later Perry) Co PA:
John LEA, 167 acres, 2 horses, 3 cows, listed at end of Tp list under "property in Diehl's Valley" (probably Henry's, later Sheaffer's, Valley, Perry Co, as a Diehl took out an early land warrantee there) , along with nearby landowners John Clouse and John, George, Jacob, Peter, & Christy Henry, and Adam Neddah Sr & Jr
1817 Tax List, Mifflin Tp, Cumberland Co PA:
John Lay Sr, 200 acres @ 4 + 3 horses @ 45 + 4 cows @ 4 = $951 tax value
197552796
PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co Will Index 1750-1937 K-S, Image 79 p. 92:
John Lay Sr Includes:
8 Aug 1823 A-83 Account Registers Docket C213 (Image 382)
16 Aug 1820 Administration proven
19 Sep 1820 Inventory #104
28 Nov 1823 Vendue List #34
Cumberland Co Courthouse:
To Wm Line Esq Register
Sir:
This is to certify that I do hereby along(?) relinquist and forever renounce all claim to the administration of my late husbands Estate and wish to have you appoint John Harper for that purpose as I have full confidence in him. (word?) my hand this 16th day of August 1820.
Hannah (her + mark) Lay - relict of John Lay Sr decd
Test
Christian Henry (signed)
16 Aug 1820 Letter of Administration, Cumberland Co PA Courthouse, Registers Docket Entry #C213 (PA Probate Records 1683-1994, Cumberland Co Administration Records 1759-1845 vol A-D, Image 382 P. 213):
John Lay dec'd
8 Nov 1821 Newspaper:
Notice
All persons having any demands against the estate of John Lay, sen'r, late of Toboyne township, Perry county. dec'd, or against the estate of William Henry, late of the same place, deceased, are requested to present them to the subscriber, on or before to 20th day of December next, properly authenticated, for settlement; and all persons who know themselves to stand indebted to either of the said estates, are requested to make immediate payment of their resoective debts, to the subscriber, as no longer indulgence can or will be given.
John Harper, Admr of said deceased
Mifflin township, Cumberland county
November 9, 1821
1824 Orphans Court Record, Perry Co PA (#26 1/2 & 46):
Guardian for Jacob Lay:
To the Honorable the Judges of the Orphan's Court of Perry Co PA.
The petition of Jacob Lay minor orphan son of John Lay late of Toboine Tp PA
Humbly herewith
That your partitioner's late father -- died leaving your petitioner a minor above the age of fourteen years (c1820) for whom no guardian hath been appointed to take care of his person and estate.
Your petitioner therefore prays? this honorable court to permit him to make charge of a guardian to take care of his person and estate of the said Samuel and he -- duly bound will --.
Jacob Lay (signed with an X)
1831 Perry Co PA, Two Plats A-033-011:
John Lay heirs (Plat 78A)
Along Laurel Run, SW Madison Tp
Survey 18 Nov 1831
Accepted 12 Jan 1832
___________________________________________
From Larry Mentger & James K Leh:
The Penn. Septennial Censuses for 1786 lists John Lay, Blacksmith, in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co. PA. The same records in the same location for 1793 lists John Lee and John Lee, Jr. The John Lee is apparently the John m. Catharine and the John Lee. Jr is their son (b. abt. 1755) who m. Hannah Henry. This record indicates John and Hannah Lay where living in Montgomery Co. and their daughter Catharine (b.1792) was born at this location. I feel the John Ley found in the 1790 Census for Montgomery Co, is the older John. A John Lay is found on the tax lists for 1781, 1782 & 1783 for the same location. I feel this person is also the older John. The Penn. Septennial Census does not list any John Lays (Ley) for 1800 in Montgomery Co. The Septennial Census for 1793 indicates the older John was still living in 1793 and the Falkner Swamp Church (above) lists him as dec'd for the marriage of his son Henry in 1796. Apparently this John Lee (Lay) died between 1793-1796.
The reference to PG Proc-Penn. German Proceedings. The reference to John Lay in Dotterer's is found in The Penn.-German in the Rev. War 1775-1783 by Henry M. Muhlenburg Richards: From the Penn.-German Society Proceedings and Addresses, V. 12: Gen. Publ. Co., Baltimore, MD 1978, 1991. It gives no age for our John. Another source below will take you to John Lay and to John Henry. You will also find Caspar Lay. The reference to John "allow'd on acct. of inability of body & est" ? may mean that he did not serve for physical reasons. Maybe he was too old. This enforces my speculation that this is the older John and the younger John was born later than 1755. Meaning also that he would not be the father of children born abt. 1774 as stated by the 1800 census.
Falkner Swamp Reformed Records, New Hanover Twp. Montgomery Co., PA:
John Lee, son of John Lee, m.1/21/1791 Hannah Henry, dau. of Nicholas Henry of Frederick Twp. Rev. Frederick Dellicker.
Unfortunately there is no birth reference for the John Lee who m. Hannah Henry. However, we do know that John was listed as the son of John Lee when he married Hannah in 1791. Furthermore, John and Catharine Leeh were sponsors for the baptismal for Catharine b.1792, daughter of John and Hanna. Catharine (b. 1792) was apparently named after her grandmother. I feel that John (b. abt.1755), Felix (b.1756), Elizabeth (b. 1760), Maria (b. 1762), Ann (b. 1765), Henry (b. 1767) and Peter (b. 1771) are the children of John and Catharine Lee and the grand children of Felix Leh.
Based upon the excellent research of K.E. Lay, it is obvious John and Hannah Lay moved to Cumberland County, PA. They apparently made this move sometime between 1793 and 1800, possibly with other members of her (Henry) family. Found in the 1800 Census, Mifflin Twp., Cumberland Co. is the family of John Lay living not far from the family of John Henry. These two families are again found in the1810 Census for Toboyne Twp., Cumberland Co. PA. This is interesting because the Penn. Septennial Census for 1800 for Toboyne Twp. lists John Lay, farmer, and John Henry, mason. Apparently, they move across the mountain from Mifflin Twp. to Toboyne Twp. by the end of 1800 after the federal census for that year was taken or they only owned property in Toboyne Twp. They are found in the 1810 Census for Toboyne Twp living not far from John Henry. The Penn. Septennial Censuses for Toboyne Twp. Cumberland Co. for 1800 list John Lay, farmer and John Henry, mason. The date for this report is 12/1800 and the location is correct. Apparently, John Lay and John Henry moved to Toboyne Twp. after the federal census was taken for that year or they only owned property in Toboyne Twp.
I have another idea, which is based primarily upon the lack of sufficient information regarding John Lay's first marriage. If it were not for the 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp. Cumberland Co. and the Ziegler Church records, it would be easy for us to assume the younger John (bp.1801) found in Cumberland Co. is the son of John and Hannah and was b.1793-95 in Montgomery Co. or Cumberland Co.
The children listed with John and Hannah in the 1810 Census Toboyne Twp. Cumberland Co. are all within the age range to be their children. Catharine (b.1792) and John (bp.1801) are without doubt. The other male children we know are Jacob (b.1805) and Henry (b.1801). The records of the St. Peter's Lutheran Church lists Margareth Lee, communed 9/13/1812 and Hannah Leh, confirmed 10/5/1817. Also listed is Anna Leh, communed 11/1/1818, but this I feel is a misspelling for Hannah. Assuming there is only one Lay family in this area, these females may be the daughters of John and Hannah. The only part of this census report I question is the age of Hannah, which is reported as 45+ when she is only 39.
However, the family of John Lay listed in the 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp. Cumberland Co is not easily understood. Again the age for Hannah is not correct but is listed as 45+ when she is only 29. In reference to their ages, there are at least four children listed who were born before the marriage of John and Hannah. While the 1810 Census makes some logical sense based upon many known facts, this 1800 Census does not. If some of these children descend from John and Eva Margaret they apparently didn't stay in the area very long and possibly moved west without leaving any records. Early census records are not reliable, especially when they are not supported by sufficient facts.
After researching a number of records including LDS films, I have not been able to find any other records for Eva Margaret as a Henry or in relationship to a John Lay. Based upon the Penn. Septennial Census (above), John (b.abt.1755) was living in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co. in 1793. In this same county, we can find records of his marriage to Hannah and their first-born child. If John was married before 1791 and had a number of children, there should also be some records. I feel church records are significant resources, however we must not permit our selves to be given the wrong impression by this same significance. The reference to Eva Margaret in the Ziegler Church records I feel is in question. It is possible the original record or translation is wrong. Since another Eva Margaret was a sponsor for this baptism, it is very possible the person who recorded this event duplicated the names. Since John Henry was the other sponsor for the baptism and possibly the brother of Hannah, I feel the church record should state Hannah is the mother of John (bp.1801).
At the present time, I feel there is not enough evidence to prove that John (1755) was married and had children before 1791. The only indication of this possible union is found in the records of Cumberland Co. I feel John was not married until 1791 and he was born at a later date then 1755. I also think he did not move to Cumberland Co. until after the death of his father which apparently took place between 1793-1796.
At the Montgomery Co. Historical Society in Norristown, PA, in the Falkner Swamp Church Record, Reformed Vol. I & II, 1748-1853 thefollowing entries were found:
Joh Lee, son of John Lee married Hannah Henry, daughter of Nicholas
Henry of Frederick Twp., Montgomery Co. 31 January 1791.
Maria daughter of John Lee married Jacob Oberdorff, son of Georg
Oberdorff, 11 December 1791.
All indications seem to point to the fact that this John Lee (b. c1755)
The 1800 Census for Mifflin Twp., raises the possibility that John Lay was married and had a number of children before his marriage to Hannah Henry in 1791. Found in this record are at least four children born before 1791. The Ziegler Church records, Mifflin Twp, Cumberland Co. PA state John, baptized 1801, son of EVA MARGARET and John Leh, sponsors, John Henry and Eva Margaret. In 1801, John Leh was married to Hannah. If Eva Margaret was John Lay's first wife, she died before 1791 and John (baptized 1801) was born before 1791, which is the marriage date for John and Hannah. Since the baptismal sponsors can often represent a significant relationship to the parents, I agree with K.E. Lay that it is possible John's first wife, Eva Margaret is a Henry and she may be the sister of John Henry who is listed as a sponsor. This is the only reference I have found that may indicate John Lay was married to Eva Margaret. According to the research of James Leh, this Eva Margaret is Margaret Fought. His reference is taken from two other web sites, which have no official reference. It is possible that this reference is taken from the St. Peter's Lutheran Church Records, Cumberland Co. PA which states Margareth Lee was a communicate on 9/13/1812. We know John was married to Hannah in 1812.
According to K.E. Lay's research, there was a John Lay in Capt. Dotterer's Co. from Frederick Twp. Phila Co. 22 April, 1777. The Revolutionary War Pension records often list family members and descendants, however I have not found a John Lay from Montgomery Co. listed in the index for these records. The older John Lay was listed in the Frederick Twp. Phila. Co. Tax lists in 1781, 1782 and 1783. He is also listed in the Septennial Census for 1786 at the same location. When the younger John Lay married Hannah, her father (Nicholas) was listed as living in Frederick Twp. Montgomery Co., which was created from Phila. Co. Were Eva Margaret and John married near this location about 1775? I can't find any records regarding John and Eva Margaret or their children at his location. If John and Eva Margaret did live in this location and bearing children, they apparently didn't attend church, which in turn has created a problem for their descendants. I'm also doing research on the Henry family in the hope that I can find this Eva Margaret Henry. This search is also leading me to believe that John, Hannah and Eva Margaret Henry are siblings, children of Nicholas and Sophia (Adams) Henrich.
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