|Barry Waterfield (#47525109)|
| || member for 3 years, 2 months|
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|Bio and Links|
|I live in England. Not too far from London. I found this site by accident after a television broadcast featuring the crimes of John Gacy in America.I was once a professional musician working mainly in the theatre. Now I am becoming tired and old. I have posted tributes to Robert Piest and Gregory Godzik ( Gacy Victims ) sometimes under my own name and sometimes anonymously.I post anonymously when I want people to think more on a concept connected with the deceased than the person themselves. I have also paid tribute to Michael Llewellyn Davis of Peter Pan fame, Charles Dickens, Edith Nesbit, John Inman and Charles Kingsley plus many others. I am interested in the Esoteric and in the mystery that seems to surround our passing from this earth. In the 'What might have been' factor.I will reply to all mail.|
| Contributions to|
Find A Grave
136 Virtual Flowers
22 Fame Ratings
|Messages left for Barry Waterfiel... (34)||[Leave Message]|
|Guy ********||RE: A book|
I hope you (and Mr. Roo) are well and staying cool through the Summer heat.
I appreciate your thoughtful suggestion regarding my writing a book about Rob.
In the past, I've had experience in assisting others in writing their books, and I have outside resources to publish a book independently. But I will state clearly that any book written by me about Rob would only be acceptable to me as a not for profit venture. All proceeds from any such book would be given to charity...a youth oriented charity. I concur, a book (any good book) about Rob would be popular, but for now, I'm content to speak through this medium...and perhaps only this medium.
Until recently, I've been very private. A few years ago, the idea of posting my photo on the internet and going public about Rob would have been out of the question. ...And to have spoken of J. Gacy doubly unthinkable! But now, it's time to open up somewhat. It's true, for many years, among people who've known the victims, to speak of the perpetrator of these horrific crimes seemed almost an unholy act and a sacrilege. As for Gacy himself, we must leave him to the Universal Divine Process.
Frankly, when you consider the "life review" that everyone is to have upon passing from this world, maybe when J. Gacy passed, the Divine Process allowed his life review to consist of experiencing the deaths of each and every one of his victims in the first person and in real time...dying in total, not once, but 33/34 times. I would consider that to be Divine justice/wisdom and Divinity's benevolent genius in awakening the perpetrator to the lost ways of his evil while simultaneously allowing him the opportunity (like all good Souls of positive energy) to eventually come to the natural, exalted state of Love and Godliness. I don't subscribe to the concept of eternal damnation, but rather to universal, unconditional compassion and opportunity for redemption. However, for the duration, one will suffer according to one's deeds. I think that salvation, and ultimately, Spiritual enlightenment is open to everyone...including Mr. Gacy...perhaps after many karma-directed incarnations. If 'God' is Love, then 'God' is ultimately all-inclusive. I think that Universal love applies to every Soul universally. Meanwhile, the Human Soul and life in this rough and tumble world is in process of evolution in every sense and at every level of energy, while the Divine is ever complete and perfect.
These past four days my mother has been sick with fever and I have been shuttling from my house to hers, taking her to hospital on Friday at 5 pm, returning her home, administering meds etc. and staying the night with her all the while. Actually, I've been visiting with her (in her wellness) in this fashion for the past six months, and more than half the time staying the night at her house. It's been a privilege! Ordinarily, my octogenarian mother has no need of meds of any kind. Though she has arthritis, (and needs my occasional assistance) she prefers to keep meds to a bare minimum and her independence to a maximum.
Stay cool and air conditioned...
Take care and be well,
|Guy ********||RE: The Greater Mysterie|
I was away for part of the weekend, and when my schedule is full, I tend not to check email until I return home and have settled in. With such scheduling, there may tend to be a lull in my response.
I am not ill... My senses tell me that I'm in the best shape of my life! Since High School, (By Junior year) I've stood at six feet tall and continue to weigh in at 185 healthy pounds. Now, only with 7% body fat.
To reiterate, I greatly appreciate your thoughts and sentiments. Before writing this, I took a review of what contributors to Rob's site have written over the years--going back to August of 2001. I can't adequately put into words how deeply moved I am, except to say that I am moved to an awesome depth to where it hurts and my heart aches.
Your description of Alister Cook's program (I well recall him from his years as host of Masterpiece Theater) - "A Letter from America" reminds me of my original intent when coming to Rob's site. ...And that intention is to inform the good Souls--who have left flowers for Rob--about his life as I knew him, before (and sometimes beyond) tragedy. I want people to know of his lifetime and about the wonderful, beautiful ways of his character, personality and Soul.
As it turns out, this site does serve as a record for a good number of years...at least ten years.
Over the last month, I've been considering talking about our (Rob's and my) teachers, and about our school days, events and various activities together etc. It's just a matter of making the time and having the peace and quiet to do so. My memory is sharp as a razor...to the point actually that I seem to function above time...with a thought, I am transported to 'then' and 'there'. In a recent conversation with my Mom, I gave her a detailed description of an event (and of the people involved) when I was three years old. I also gave a detailed description of the house, its floor plan, structural design and how it was decorated...colors, paintings, fireplaces and furniture placement, etc. My mother was amazed, because it happened 49 years ago and that I had only been there on that one occasion. I say this because I want to emphasize that I remember every event, name and significant (and not so significant) person in my life. It's truly wonderful and it inspires me and my love for life to no end! No matter how much suffering I have endured in life, my enthusiasm for life always comes rolling back!
I can't say for how long I will contribute to Rob's site, but I can say that I will do my utter best to make good on my original intent...with the greatest of respect and love for Rob...as he deserves no less!
|Guy ********||RE: Postings|
I greatly appreciate the thoughtful sentiments that you've expressed throughout your reply and very much appreciate your kind regards toward me. Your thoughts about Rob's passing are well stated...yet there is mystery beyond all reckoning!
Rob did have a girlfriend. The last time I saw and spoke with him, he was sitting in the Maine West cafeteria with her and another attractive girl...a friend of his girlfriend.
I've come a long way since the declaration of my 'bilateral' sensibilities in High School. In addition to becoming wise to the ways of (earthly) human bonds, I have become wise enough to have freedom OF and freedom FROM those bonds. I've gone the way of peace, meditation and contemplation. Some folks sometimes call me 'the Zen Monk'. Zen is a small, but significant part of a much greater whole for me. Our existence has far more to it than any one spiritual tradition or school of thought can fully fathom or pinpoint...to be sure!
As I know that everyone's time is limited in this life, and as my life is entering into a period of great transition in every respect, I want what I intend to post about Rob and our youth together to become a part of the record of this site. It can span only so far and for only so long. My visit to this site is but a sojourn. Therefore, I intend it to be significant to Rob's memory and Spirit...and then I shall let go...leaving it behind to gradually fade into the farther points of this site as the various tributes to Rob continue to slowly roll in. After this, (with some tearful measure of sorrow and some tearful measure of joy) for however long or short, I intend to move on full blast into the remainder of my earthly, Spiritual journey.....
I want to mention that I've met J. Gacy's attorney, Sam Amirante. He was the presiding judge in a small case involving a friend of mine. Mr. Amirante is a most engaging, upbeat personality...very jovial, high-spirited and very warmly Italian-American! (Rob and I have some significant Italian heritage through our mothers.)
Sam Amirante has returned to practicing as an attorney after a number of years on the bench. My friend continues to occasionally seek his council. Fortunately, I've had no need of Mr. Amirante's council, nor have I had occasion to discuss Rob or his infamous client with him.....To be sure, that would be a most engrossing conversation!
I want to comment that some of the tributes I post are intended only for a short term and are slated for future deletion. My tribute of 29th June was one such due to its reference to a declaration I made in High School. I thought you'd appreciate and understand it. I'm sure you understand that there are the potential sensitivities of certain others to consider with such a posting. ...And with that consideration in mind, I prefer that Rob's memorial be one always of peace, not controversy. Also, I want to note that I thoroughly appreciated your now deleted post of 2nd of July.
I hope you are well and in better spirits since your last email. Have you read any further in that book - "The Chicago Killer"? Even for the most Spiritually advanced person, to read such material would be an unhappy venture. one must be careful/mindful in such ventures, after all, one cannot ever expect to find the Light by making a study of the darkness.
|Guy ********||Re: A strange experience|
It's nice to hear from you. I hope that the Summer season finds you well and healthy.
In response to your question, I have precognitive experiences regularly and can tell you that your dream was a psychic experience of a precognitive nature relating to the details outlined in the online book preview of "Chicago Killer". It probably crossed with your memory of what I wrote to Rob on the 9th of February where I speak of the Mid-western Autumn...you mentioned that your dream was set in Autumn.
You are very sensitive and retain a complex mix of details and images about Rob and his suffering. The subconscious/preconscious, and the cognitive and precognitive dream states can certainly make for a challenge in decipherment.
Also, your dream description of the American classroom is accurate...there were those awful artificial, fluorescent lights that shined glaringly overhead. I loathed them! On warm, sunny days I yearned to be outdoors and would sometimes ask the more adventuresome teachers to conduct lessons outside...they'd sometimes oblige.
To this day, I don't like artificial lighting on bright, sunny days.
We'll be in touch...
|Guy ********||RE: Karma Again...|
In reference to that passage, simply put, it means that evil is everywhere within this life, and that encountering it is (mostly) unavoidable. Furthermore, upon encountering evil, there are earthly consequences to the one who suffers at its hands, and Karmic consequences to the doer of the evil.
Other Lives - According to many schools of thought, we are not necessarily bound to reincarnation, (the Buddhists think we are) but we have it as an option. It is said that the best and quickest way to enlightenment is through the terrestrial route. I can go on about that a length but will spare it/Spirit. Einstein believed this to be a strange world, (it is, thus far) but I say that this world is in the making, we are evolving/awakening while it develops and we as yet do not know the full story. So, in the face of this strange world of suffering and pain, we must endeavor to realize that there are many ways toward suffering's end. In the process, we must endeavor toward optimism with the understanding that in our recognition that matter is energy, and that many higher levels of energy exist in reality, we can come to realize that by changing energy, miracles occur. Thought is energy! After many years of endeavoring, I have come to the point where I routinely manifest what I think about. Needless to say, I am very careful what I think about and about how and where I focus my attention. Where the attention goes the energy flows (if you get my drift.). In defiance of Einstein's theory, thought travels faster than the speed of light. Here's where I focus much attention.
The Order of Mind or Psychic Law speaks to the order of the processes of consciousness, arising consciousness and perishing of ego, constituents of consciousness, power of mindfulness - including telepathy, retro-cognition, premonition, clairvoyance, clairaudience, thought reading and other such psychic phenomena which are inexplicable to science. But science is getting on board, it's inevitable! I daily experience these phenomena and I am respectful and mindful of others in the process.
Back to Karma - Along with how an individual's present actions and choices impact his Karma, there is also the individual's own particular level of consciousness/awareness itself that is equal (if not greater) in determining how that individual's life is orchestrated and on what type of reality/realities will manifest for him/her.
Barry, I empathize with your protestations to the Buddhist concept of reincarnation. From the age of seven (the age of reason) I was depressed about the state of the world, the conflict of the masses of unenlightened peoples/nations, (Vietnam! etc) the awful, selfish, unmindful conflicts between individuals etc. etc. I was not happy to be here, but I have spent my life endeavoring to hurdle those mountains. I have triumphantly ground many of those mountains to dust. I do not despair, I triumph!
This particular day's activities did not do well in the way of rest, and that's okay, I did what I wanted to do. I am still a bit zonked, but I will use the next day for rest and fully expect to refuel, retool, and reboot! Alpha, Theta, Delta and Gamma brain waves to the rescue!
The question of Karma is one that demands a deep and lengthy answer. It can be confusing.
There is a sort of pop-culture consensus as to what Karma is. The answer as to Karma is not an easy one. Karma does not necessarily mean past actions. It embraces both past and present deeds. Hence in one sense, we are the result of what we were; we will be the result of what we are. In another sense, it should be added, we are not totally the result of what we were and we will not absolutely be the result of what we are.
The present is no doubt the offspring of the past and is the present of the future, but the present is not always a true index of either the past or the future; so complex is the working of Karma.
Karma is the order of action and result, Example: Desirable and undesirable acts produce good and bad results. As surely does water seek its own level, so does Karma...given opportunity, produce its inevitable result, not in the form of a reward or punishment but as an innate sequence. This sequence of deed and effect is as natural and necessary as the way of the stars and planets.
If anyone says that a man or a woman must reap in this life according to his or her present deeds, in that case there is no spiritual life, nor is an opportunity afforded for the entire extinction of sorrow. But if anyone says that a man or a woman reaps in this and future lives accords with his or her deeds present or past, in that case there is a spiritual life, and an opportunity is afforded for the entire extinction of sorrow.
There is the Buddhist saying, "not in the sky, nor in mid-ocean, or entering a mountain cave is found that place on earth where one may escape from an evil deed or the consequences thereof." Yet, because of free will, one is not naturally bound to pay all the past arrears of one's Karma. For individuals of that case, emancipation is an impossibility. Eternal recurrence would be the unfortunate result.
I'm not concerned (worried) for Rob's Karma, we are not inanimate objects, nor are we permanently fixed entities, we are in constant, generative flux, and we have the broadest range of options and possibilities afforded to us by universal laws. Moment by moment we are never quite the same person twice, but we do carry some Karmic baggage until we break all ties to samsara and 'achieve' nirvana. Such are the Buddhist beliefs. There is not one spiritual tradition that has all the answers, I know this, consciousness is a mighty mysterious business...and the (relatively small) astounding, miraculous glimpses that I have witnessed are monumentally inspiring. With that I say: Let the lessons and awakening continue.
You've mentioned the effect that Rob has had on women, I have seen the evidence for this at his mausoleum. There are lipstick kisses all over the front of it. In nearly 36 years, I have only been there a half dozen times...starting in October of 2010. I first read the book Killer Clown in 1984 and a second time in March of 2009. It took me 19 months to visit Rob's tomb thereafter. But each time I have gone there I have had a remarkable psychic / Spiritual experience.
I hope that I wrote lucidly enough at all within these past 24 hours, as I've had only three hours sleep within the past 24 hours, and though I'm holding up well, I think it best to sign off now. Cheerio! ~ Guy
|Guy ********||The car ride w/Gacy|
I just want to note that early on and over the years I have questioned Rob's consenting to go all the way to Gacy's house. I'm quite aware that Gacy could very well have subdued Rob at any point during the car ride.
|Guy ********||RE: Bravo|
Rhapsody In Blue is indeed a most amazing piece! I've always loved it! No doubt it was a most wonderfully rousing event! There is nothing like the experience of the concert orchestra. It's impact on the spirit is grand, powerfully, mentally expansive save nothing to say of how it blasts and vibrates one's body...particularly the chest and gut. Seriously, I think that anyone who has a weak heart should consider sitting as far away from the orchestra as possible. I say this because I was standing directly front and center with the 75 year old mother of a musician friend of mine when I thought to myself that this was not a place for such a frail old woman to be. Two days later my friend's mother was found dead in her bed from a heart attack.
On a Positive Note, Bravo! and Kudos! to U for such a Splendid Conducting Performance!...ailing legs notwithstanding!
Now, about Rob...
Surely, Rob's innocence and all else you mention aptly applies as to the public's fascination with him. I'm very touched by your description of how people are emotionally moved to their depths over him...and I love them for it! My eyes well with tears at this exquisite display of humanity!
I know Rob's character, how he was, how he thought. I knew not only the most large and obvious facets of his character, but also the subtle ones...and I can tell you with 99% certainty that Rob was not coerced. It was his independence and his determined, ambitious WAY to prove himself worthy, mature and responsible. By agreeing to ride with a prospective employer, so as to discuss a much better paying job, he'd have thought THAT to be the best way to prove his metal, maturity, responsibility and his eagerness to work...work hard! Rob didn't earn all of his merit badges in the Boy Scouts by sitting idle! He was determined and he always worked hard! He was through and through, by all good and descent means an achiever! That was Rob!
If Rob had survived his ordeal, being as sensitive as he was, I have no doubt that he would have suffered a major crisis. But Rob has so many strengths that I know he would have gradually fought his way back to recovery. ...And he wouldn't have had to do it alone, he would have had the love and support of everyone who knew and loved him. Love has dominion over all adversity! Rob was powerfully loved and he was/is LOVE personified!
The Des Plaines Police -
I've read that the Des Plaines Police Department's handling of the Gacy case has become the example and set the standard for how all Police Departments should handle known and suspected cases involving serial killers. Kudos for that!
Barry, I hope that your problem will soon be resolved so that you can get the treatment you need. Don't give up, never surrender! (as the great Winston Churchill would say.)
As for the question of Karma, I will answer that at another time, at an earlier hour.
|Guy ********||RE: Voices from the past.|
I hope you are well rested. Sorry to hear about your leg troubles. There isn't any harm in seeking and using natural remedies (that aren't harsh) for what ails you.
As to your question respective to the public fascination with Rob...first, Rob's death and the subsequent revelations of Gacy's crimes entered into the collective conscience in real time. With that, people felt an immediate connection to Rob. The public in a sense became a collective witness after the fact. They were deeply moved (I think) to an awesome depth of emotion at the reality of a most decent young man ("An All American Boy") dying so hideously at the hands of a maniacal, murderous fiend. I think that people's hearts were deeply struck (for a myriad of reasons...you name it.) to the point where Rob's death became very personal for them...especially after they got to know what kind a person Rob was. The other victims were certainly held in the hearts and minds of people, but the other victims were more at a distance. Rob was right at the center of this horrendous drama in 'real time'. I think the immediacy of the news and the continuous rush and flurry of the constant unfolding of details in the story displaced (at least news-wise) the other (earlier) victims. So, Rob being front and center of the case naturally became the public focus. With all that, the public developed a need to know everything they could about Rob, and what they learned about Rob has deeply moved and driven them across time...across to what would still now be his natural lifetime. Rob might well have lived into the 2030's, 2040's or 50's. ...And people continue to ache and wonder at what might have been.
Years ago there was a well known study by psychologists that followed the course of children from the age of seven to adulthood. At age seven these children were asked to consider what they would be like as adults, about how'd they'd be and about what they would be doing. Years later, well into adulthood, the followup study discovered that the rate of accuracy as to those childhood predictions was (across the board) spot on. My point being that we already know who we are in this life right from the beginning. As I've said before, Rob knew who he was (and it showed!)
I'm not a teacher.
I'm familiar with the brilliant George Gershwin's music...particularly Rhapsody in Blue, but also An American in Paris and Porgy and Bess. I think he died from a brain tumor at age 37 or 38. His brother Ira who was a great lyricist...they were marvelous collaborators.
Any shouts of Bravo(!) and Encore(!) at Thursday's event?
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