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Kristi Baker (#47457754)
 member for 4 years, 1 month, 17 days
JBrown, IA, MN, Calif, AustinTX
Re: Need Cemetery Change- To separate two sets of Frenchs- different DNAs
Hi, Kristi. A heads up--I've just used the Edit tab for Freedom Kingsley's John French to request a cemetery change for him,
FROM Hancock at Quincy,
TO Bridge at Northampton in Hampshire County.

I've just added a page for her to Findagrave. He should be placed with her, where the descendants of Enos Kingsley are also buried, which was the burying ground for the church that they shared. (Hancock Cemetery placed him with the wrong set of Frenches, details in prior message.)

PS Which Williams are you studying? I have two sets:

1) Andrew Jackson/AJ Williams of Cleveland who, pre-Civil War, was a young lawyer and abolitionist politician, from a preaching family with a Benajah Williams and Lorenzo Dow Williams, with the preacher dad beginning at Honeyoe Falls NY, but prior history murky

He married Amelia Climena French, dtr. of Edwin French, son of Jacob who married a woman descended from the other Frenches, son of Abiathar, so clearly in the Braintree/Quincy set. Edwin moved short distances inside one county, then to Cleveland. Born in 1807 in Painesville Twp, so pre-War of 1812, went to Perry Twp, perhaps Willoughby, and then Cleveland.

All 3 buried at the lovely and interesting Lake View Cemetery in Cleveland, which has Garfield's multi-story, walkable tomb and arboretum landscaping.

1) Louis Nelson/Lewis N. Willams
b. SC pre-Civil War, but family perhaps not southern (if went south for ministry or biz)

Married/Remarried Santa Cruz, Cal after 1875
with 1 child from that marriage

New family in Redwood Township in the next county for the 1880 Census (Santa Clara Cty; he's away, maybe a stage coach driver or rail worker or sign painter or military or off at a mining or lumber camp? too many choices).

He had married a much younger, 30ish woman, Mary Eiza French Byerly/Bierly, widow of Melville Madden Byerly, the editor of the Salinas Index, mother of Edwin Williams and Elmer Byerly, and daughter of Ransom French (Ransom moved to and fro, between Mich and Mentor Twp, Ohio, was born 1811 in Ohio, so pre-War of 1812.)

Death and Burial place unknown. He disappears from both history and Mary's life, perhaps one of the many unidentified deaths in that then-wild place. She waited, then sued for desertion in order to have clear custody of Edwin Newton Williams and went back to Mich, re-married an Overacker, then died in Priest River, Idaho, where her sons had gone for work. Edwin died in Spokane. This Edwin's son, Kenneth Ward Williams, lived in Portland OR before death

Added by JBrown, IA, MN, Calif, Au... on Apr 23, 2015 2:28 PM

JBrown, IA, MN, Calif, AustinTX
Need Cemetery Change- To separate two sets of Frenchs- different DNAs
Hi, Kristi. This is background info to justify a requested cemetery change

===FRENCH DETAILS==========
A key thing I've learned to ask when checking cemeteries-- "Are the in-laws there, or elsewhere?"

I am one of several people hoping to clean-up the confusion over two John Frenches (unrelated, so different DNAs, but both in my husbands's tree). At findagrave, this confusion has caused two errors:
(A) The younger John French, who married Freedom Kingsley, should beburid by her at Northampton, MA, so upriver of the Springfield metro, but is wrongly listed several counties away, at the older one's cemetery in Quincy, so just below Boston.
(B) The other, older John French's wife, also with a Puritan firstname, Grace, to wrongly be given Freedom Kingsley's maiden name. Grace's maiden was instead either Grace Unknown, using legal records, or Grace Alden, using the family history believed true by a departing branch of her Frenches.

The set believing she was an Alden had, with some Alden-descended cousins named Bass, gone down into that part of Plymouth County settled by the Aldens. They then headed off to other places where it was even harder for Savage and other writers to keep track of them, so to NH and VT (Barre/Montpelier area) and then to Chicago and Idaho.

Why the confusion?

At first, there was an "old-timey" belief that a matching surname and a matching first name meant two people had the same ancestor back in England. So, the confusion over the two Johns maybe goes back to that.

However, once different DNAs became apparent, these two particular John Frenches were still confused, due, I think, to both being Puritans, both born in the 1600s, confusion made far worse by both having ministers trained at the SAME "mother churches" (mainly in Dorchester, its "First Church", in a place which is now south Boston, but also the mothering First Church in Weymouth).

After whichever date their favored ministers choose new churches, it then becomes easier to separate their different congregations and thus the different Frenchs and their different cemeteries.

This John French's set, with Freedom Kingsley French as the first mother in my husband's tree, was raised at Ipswich, up by the Maine border. They then went far south of Boston, once in minister-following mode. This set favored TWO ministers shared with their Kingsley inlaws, so shared at least TWO cemeteries with their Kingsley in-laws.

For example, Freedom and her John French are said by old sources to be buried at their last church, shared with Enos Kingsley, at Northampton MA (following the first Northampton minister, Rev. Eleazer Mather). Their son, Deacon Thomas French, after a stint at Deerfield MA (by Northfield, maybe with a Rev. Williams, marred by tragedy for both), ended up in or near that piece of old Rehoboth that is now Rhode Island (following the first Rehoboth minister, Rev. Samuel Newman).

BEWARE. The state boundary was moved, in the 1800s I think, so people thinking their Rehoboth relatives had been buried in Mass, instead found them buried at RI. John Kingsley's stone was, on top of that change, recovered from the old family yard and moved by family to a cemetery renamed for Rv. Samuel Newman. (JK's listing can be found at Findagrave twice, as the same cemetery apparently is found under TWO names, each with its own set of graves to be searched if looking for relatives.)

Thus, people looking for Puritan era Frenches and Kingsleys together must check under 3 cemetery names at Findagrave, and will need to check two states, both RI and Mass.

Julia Brown, Austin TX Apr, 2015
The other set, different DNA, never married Kingsleys in the Puritan era, stayed in Braintree for many generations, so are in two cemeteries near Braintree with no Puritan Kingsleys. These were Hancock (has zero Kingsleys, used by the Frenches when no other cemetery was closer) and Elm Street (zero Kingsleys, created when population growth justified a separate church and cemetery closer to where the Braintree Frenches actually lived). The church at the first spot became Unitarian after freedom of religion was fully enacted after 1820 (separation of church and state enforced). The church at the second spot is now the First Congregational Church of Braintree.

Julia Brown, Austin TX

Added by JBrown, IA, MN, Calif, Au... on Apr 23, 2015 1:53 PM

RE: Lois Vibber Avery
You are welcome to use my photo for any purpose, Kristi, and thank you for asking.

Added by psc on Mar 14, 2015 7:46 AM

Lois Avery
Thanks for the information. If you would like me to transfer her memorial, let me know. Happy New Year!

Added by psc on Dec 31, 2014 5:44 PM

Mike Weeks
RE: Ray Walter Brown
Hi Kristi - I have only two "bullets" regarding Ray's USNR service: commissioning date of 10/3/1938 with rank of Lieut. Designated a Naval Aviator on 8/18/1941 (most likely a function of paperwork since he was already a licensed pilot).

Sorry I don't have more. Appreciate the material you've posted on ancestry, especially the who's who in aviation write up. Mike

Added by Mike Weeks on Oct 03, 2014 12:38 PM

Cathy and Tim Sheffler
RE: Orlena Tiffany Kishbaugh
I thought I had responded before, but I guess not. Feel free to use the picture. It was a great excuse to get up into the Endless Mountains region.


Added by Cathy and Tim Sheffler on Aug 22, 2014 10:38 PM

Joel Shore
George S Avery...
Looks like AncestryAddict beat me to what I was going to tell you. Just to add, a few other things:

You can see tombstone inscriptions for various Avery's including George S. here: and a plot map for the lot where he is buried (Lot 64 of Section G) can be obtained here:

Note that there is George A Avery who died in 1856 at age 53, if that is a possibility.


Added by Joel Shore on Feb 16, 2014 7:04 PM

George S. Avery
Hi. I just looked at Mount Hope burial records... George S. Avery was only 1 year old when he passed.

Added by ancestryaddict92 on Feb 14, 2014 1:00 PM

Connie Clark
RE: Sarah Huckstep Bryant
Thank you and you're welcome. Some are more challenging then others :) Connie and Wayne

Added by Connie Clark on Dec 03, 2013 2:06 PM

D. Lynch
Lucy Brown
Your great-grandmother's memorial is now in your care!

Don Lynch

Added by D. Lynch on Nov 27, 2013 9:41 AM

Mark Kunzman
RE: Frances L. Blackman
Yes you can use pictures.

Added by Mark Kunzman on Nov 05, 2013 7:42 PM

Andrew L.
RE: Ogden family
All my pics are free to distribute. 8)

Added by Andrew L. on Sep 11, 2013 2:17 PM

Sister Sonya
Eliza Kishbaugh
Thanks for finding and photographing Eliza's grave marker. It's appreciated!


Added by Sister Sonya on Jul 03, 2013 8:15 AM

Leon Barton
Evelyn Nichols
I know the Nichols family and I question if Evelyn has died. I found a newspaper article that is agout a year old and it stated she was living in Hutchinson, Kansas. There is a photo of the gravestone shown on the memorial for her husband Robert E. Nichols but it don't have a death date and I was just at the cemetery and it still don't show a death date. Do you known if she is still living?

Added by Leon Barton on Mar 14, 2013 2:13 PM

Paul R
RE: William C. Ogden
Send me a 'Suggest a change'. Trying to determine which William Ogden is impossible. I have created memorials for 6 by that name. I can do the updates or I can transfer. You decide.


Added by Paul R on Oct 13, 2012 11:27 AM

Carole Alden
Baker research
Was looking at Memorial# 13727933 and noticed your a Baker. plus Nathan. Have to ask if you have a tree? down from Nathan Baker, Carole

Added by Carole Alden on Aug 09, 2012 6:41 PM

Carole Alden
Baker research
Was looking at Memorial# 13727933 and noticed your a Baker. plus Nathan. Have to ask if you have a tree? down from Nathan Baker, Carole

Added by Carole Alden on Aug 09, 2012 6:40 PM

Stephen Maassen
James McClaren and Mary McClaren
I walked Shipman cemetery today fulfilling a photo request by another family. So while I was there I looked for the McClarens, too, but I wasn't able to locate a gravesite. There are some stones which are simply unreadable at this point. Sorry my news isn't better )-: Diana

Added by Stephen Maassen on Jun 15, 2012 11:53 PM

Michael Harrington
Sophia Elizabeth French
Please feel free to send me what you have. It would be my honor to add it for you.


Added by Michael Harrington on Nov 22, 2011 12:49 PM

Michael Harrington
Sophia Elizabeth French
Hi Kristi,

I live in Warrenville so I did most (but not all) of the cemetery research. I could read the stone even though it is flat on the ground.

Hope this helps.


Added by Michael Harrington on Nov 22, 2011 6:23 AM

RE: Daniel I. French
Happy to do it for you!

Added by shadows on Nov 21, 2011 2:19 PM

RE: Daniel I. French
Since it is a relative of yours, would you like me to transfer it to you? I would be happy to do so and you can add any additional info you would like.

Added by shadows on Nov 21, 2011 12:04 PM

Clinton Center Cemetery
I removed the age for Enoch Curtis, its possible that I saw the wrong age of death. Its very hard to seen a worn stone.

Added by A M P on Oct 20, 2011 7:22 AM

Enoch Curtis

Added by A M P on Oct 20, 2011 7:18 AM

Jane Ireland
RE: Florence McClaren Williams
As I recall that was a military stone and some had the wife's name on the front and some on the back side of the stone. There was none for Florence.

Added by Jane Ireland on Oct 06, 2011 4:10 PM


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